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Better MIDI Documentation / Implementation

chrisw_63
 

Quoting EJ SHELDON:  "When it comes to MIDI, they're not famous for crystal clear descriptions. Then, none of the amp sim vendors are. But that's a rant for another day....."

Hmm.. I'm wondering, We have a fairly decent sized community here.  Is there any chance a community letter to the companies that make these products would have an impact?  Something like:
  • You make these products for people to USE.
  • MIDI Pedals and other MIDI controllers make them much easier to use, especially in a performance or recording environment.
  • Your products would be more popular and used more (read: PUBLICITY) if you'd make them easier to use with MIDI controllers while at the same time compliant to MIDI standards.
  • Even documenting your MIDI interface better would help in this area.
Let's face it - Companies that make hardware MIDI devices - Amps, Amp emulators, Effect Pedals, etc. aren't our target here.  They want their product visible out front, not someone else's MIDI pedal or controller.  We could send them the letter anyway, with a slightly different bent to target them better.  But I think the end around approach would be better.  Target plugin and software emulator companies first.
They have no public face other than a computer or tablet screen.  The easier their soft instruments and/or effects are to use, assuming they're good in the first place, the more people will want to use them.  And when someone with some notoriety gets interviewed and asked, "What's an FCB1010, I've never heard of that pedal." They can say, "Oh, that just controls <virtual product(s) here>.  Xyz company made it easy to connect to my MIDI pedal and use their software effects live!".  We all win.

With MIDI 2.0 gaining popularity and slowly rolling out, I can imagine future controllers that just work.  Tap a knob, tap a control, and they're linked, and the setup saved in the controller as well as the software.  Without any prior setup or jumping though hoops!  More advanced pedalboards are not that far away (I Hope!), and the plugin/emulator companies are going to have to get with it sooner or later.  All we need is ONE popular plugin to go "pro-MIDI", and the others will have to follow suit or get left behind.

The FCB1010 community wouldn't be the only people to benefit from such changes, either. We could see if McMillen, IK Multimeda and other users want to chime in.  Am I just smoking the wrong pipe here?

Re: Programming flowchart X-Air 18

networker1@...
 

So... I am able to program the controller (Mind you I have the stock Behringer FW) to control the X-Air 18. No issues. I have been able to program stompbox mode to control the mutes, however, the LED on the pedal remains on. Is there a way or a setting to make it turn off and on? Or any trick to make it turn off and on?? . 

Sending And Receiving Sysex Dumps With MIDI-OX

Faith Banini <faithbanini@...>
 

 This guide walks through sending and receiving a sysex dump with MIDI-OX in order to back up presets on the Code.
 

The expression pedals on Behringer FCB1010 MIDI foot controller

Faith Banini <faithbanini@...>
 

 
Do you want to calibrate the expression pedals on your Behringer FCB1010?
 
Here are the steps below to 
 

Re: Brand New dummy ;-)

EJ SHELDON
 

Only had time for Cold Sweat, but way cool!
I also have a Steinie (Spirit), and a Steinie bass.
Very under appreciated instruments.

Re: Brand New dummy ;-)

Matt Miller
 

Dear EJ
           You THE man,   You are sooooo kind in helping everyone !
Starting at the end of your letter.......The reason I use my Laptop, is for 2 things.
1.  Its my outdoor battery backup BAND !  I use Sound Forge to play ~ 50 different Loops/songs :-)
2.  As well as my effects, via Native Guitar Rig
( I can even run a Mic and my guitar in separate stereo channels in GR :-)  )

As an Outdoor Busker.......since the Laptop is running on Battery, as everything else........ its a 'keeper' :-)

Since the FCB is soooo huge.....I was thinking that it would be nice to have the GR Synth under my chair ( I sit), out of the way.
with the FCB controlling it.
I only use ~ 8 presets on the GR Synth, and only ~ 2 mainly from Guitar Rig ( could be 4-8 if I can get this all working)
I do want the Wah :-)

So, as you suggest  I'll buy the Software.........and see if that's enough for me :-)

The Helix....no money.....and ........I really do LOVE my quad Delay in Guitar Rig

fyi...Everything I run has its own state of the art, rechargeable batts!
Roland Cube Street EX
A Video Lighting 12V Battery Belt powers my Synth :-)
Behringer ( 2 - 9V) Mixer
and Laptop ...which powers my Focusrite 2x4 USB Audio with Native GR Effects and Band :-)

Here's my schtick with tons of video samples
http://onemanmatt.com/

Re: Brand New dummy ;-)

EJ SHELDON
 

If all you need to do is change Presets then no, you don't need UNO. I do, however, recommend getting the UNO_ControlCenter Editor. It works with UNO AND the stock Chip. If you want to, say, turn ON/OFF devices (OD, Fuzz, Delay, Reverb, etc) then get the UNO Chip.

You're using two physical devices. You'll want them receiving PC (Program Change = PC) messages on  2 different MIDI Channels.
Likewise, Expression pedal info (Wah, Volume, Delay time, etc). You can assign one Expression pedal to each device, or both to one, and do so per FCB preset, by using separate MIDI Channels, and unlike the ON/OFF controllers, you can change the MIDI Channels per FCB Preset.
With UNO you'll have 5 ON/OFF buttons in each FCB Bank. They'll send the same 5 CC (Continuous Controller messages) on the same 2 MIDI Channels, in every FCB bank.
Each ON/OFF button can send 2 different CC messages, on separate MIDI Channels. But they'll be the same messages on the same channels in every bank.

Those are just a few examples things to think about.
 
You're wanting to do a LOT.
You'll need to be specific about EXACTLY what you want to be able to do, and you'll need an in-depth understanding of how GR5 and the GR9 work.

If you search recent threads on using GR5, I've provided in depth instructions and a UNO_ControlCenter (Editor) sysex for use with GR5.
Once you've read up on it and tried the provided sysex, I'll be happy to answer specific questions
I know bupkus about the GR9.

You mentioned being a Computer Pro. When I worked in that field I made good money, and music was a hobby.
If this describes your situation, then I recommend that you dump the FCB for a Line6 Helix (best Multi-fx + MIDI implementation). The Helix is very capable of controlling the GR9, probably better than the FCB, even with UNO, and you can put the GR9 in a Helix FX loop, thus integrating the whole system. It also sounds MUCH better (and has better support) than GR5, and eliminates the fragile computer from the live performance scenario.

Just sayin'.

Brand New dummy ;-)

Matt Miller
 

Hi all
          I bought an FCB years ago, and havn't used it as I'm 99% a Busker....outdoors on Batteries! :-)
But now, I'm starting to book indoor gigs.  I'm a computer pro....but a rank beginner.with MIDI
So I apologize for asking for help as I've been  getting emails for years...... you get the idea

I want to use my FCB to control my Native Guitar Rig 5 and my Roland GR9 Guitar Synth

So do I need the UNO?  And editor?  $50 is not make or break me $.....but If I don't need?
If you recommend that I should, then I will :-)

I want to be able to use the Pedals to change sounds in the Roland and Guitar Rig
and use the Volume and Wah

Thats all :-)

Thank you in advance !!!
Very Kind of you!

Re: 88 msg + won't let me factory reset

chrisw_63
 

So sorry for the position you're in.  Removing and replacing that chip isn't hard IF you have the tools and experience.  Sadly, that's not a common skill set.  Behringer would probably repair it for you.  I have no idea what they would charge.  Maybe you'll get lucky and it'll be a free fix!  (I can dream!)  I really would at least tell your friend what's going on, and let them decide if they want to help you get it fixed.

Re: Programming flowchart X-Air 18

chrisw_63
 

Oh boy.. here we go...  Please look up the MIDI interface compatibility list here (In the Files section?  Someone correct me if that's wrong).

If you get a cheap MIDI interface, it will NOT work with many editing programs.  Those programs have to send something called a MIDI SYSEX message to the FCB1010 in order to program it.  It's a large block of data, and the cheaper MIDI interfaces don't have the memory to store the whole thing.  USB being much faster than MIDI, the device has to buffer the data (store it) then send the MIDI out at the slower rate.  When you're just sending Notes and MIDI commands, they're usually slow enough that it doesn't fill the memory.  The SYSEX block is quite large, and once the memory is full in the MIDI interface, it starts losing data.  The checksum for the data will obviously fail, and you won't be able to program the FCB1010.  Known working MIDI Interfaces:  Roland UM1, iConnectivity, Behringer, and the Behringer and Focusrite Audio interfaces that include MIDI.  There are many others, but these are the ones I remember off the top of my head.

Some editor programs are hard to use as well.  If you have any issues, please ask here for recommendations for something that will work better.

Re: 88 msg + won't let me factory reset

admiral.caffeine@...
 

You might have your hardware oriented friend "reflow" all the solder around the RAM chips.  Perhaps it's simply a cold solder joint and not a bad chip.

Re: Programming flowchart X-Air 18

networker1@...
 

Awesome!! Thanks!! I'll start playing the controller and see. I also just sent for a usb to MIDI cable to use it with an FCB1010 programming software I found through a vid in YT. I hope I can get it to work!! Thanks for taking the time!!!

Re: 88 msg + won't let me factory reset

ossandust
 

Re: 88 msg + won't let me factory reset

anna
 

Thank you again Chris for the detailed help!

I am seriously kicking myself, I got it from Reverb "used" except the person hadn't actually used it (bought it new a year ago and didn't need it), and I am friends with the person I bought it from, so I don't think I can get a refund (or I could, but I'd feel bad about it because they are a freelance musician, etc etc why did I impulse buy this) but luckily I have a few friends who make their own hardware, maybe I can bug them about helping with de-soldering / replacing the RAM chip, though I just did a quick search and am not sure how to get a new RAM chip? Should I try contacting Behringer even though I didn't get it new?

Thank you again!

Re: Fixed Flashing '88' problem!

anna
 

Thank you all for your help! 

Ossandust, it happens regardless of whether or not the MIDI cables are plugged in, so it looks like a defective RAM chip, ugh.

Chris, thanks for all the information on RAM vs the different ROMs! I saw your comment on my other thread as well (I was panicky haha) so I'll get back there, but unfortunately I got it used, so I think I'm going to have to ask one of my soldering friends to help... 

No worries, Michael, thanks for much for your help and best of luck with your fight against cancer!

Re: Guide To The FCB1010

Faith Banini <faithbanini@...>
 

Thanks for the clarification Roger. Thanks
Kind regards.
Faith

Re: Guide To The FCB1010

Roger Colwell
 

On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 07:41 AM, Faith Banini wrote:
Does that mean my current posts are not suitable for the platform?
No, I didn't mean they are unsuitable. I suggest that those types of article, which include links to reference material and documentation, are better posted in the Databases section instead of amongst hundreds of discussion topics in the Messages section. That's just my opinion, yours may be different and that's OK.
 
--
Roger Colwell
FCB1010 Group Owner/Moderator

Re: Guide To The FCB1010

Faith Banini <faithbanini@...>
 

Hi Rojer,
Does that mean my current posts are not suitable for the platform?

Re: Programming flowchart X-Air 18

chrisw_63
 

This is pretty straightforward.  Incidentally, I had one of these for almost a year, and it worked great, though we never used any of it's MIDI stuff.  It was our first digital mixer, and the church liked it so much they upgraded to the X32 Rack.

So, first you have to note that the Faders, Mutes, and Pans are A.) all on different MIDI channels, and B.) all controlled via CC values.  This requires some planning, because of the way the FCB sends MIDI.  It can technically send CC (Continuous Controller) messages on four different channels, but those channels are set up GLOBALLY - You cannot change them without reprogramming the FCB1010.  CNT 1 and CNT 2 can each have their own MIDI channel, as can each Expression pedal.

A little clarification if you aren't familiar with the FCB's MIDI setup.  If you are, go to the next paragraph.  Each Preset on the FCB can do ten things when it's pressed.  1-5: Send five PRG CHG messages. 6 and 7: Send two CC messages labelled CNT 1 and CNT 2.  8 and 9: Set up the two expression pedals (including their CC#, min value and max value), and lastly, 10: Send a Note message.

CNT 1 and CNT 2 can only send one value each.  If you set CNT1 to send CC# 31 with a value of '00', it will mute MainLR on the XR18.  However, if you set Both CNT1 and CNT2 to the same CC# with whatever values, instead of sending two CC messages with different values, it will TOGGLE, sending the CNT1 value the first time you press it, and the CNT2 value on the second press.  Perfect for a MUTE button.  So in GLOBAL setup, set CNT1 and CNT2 to both use MIDI channel 2.

The Expression pedals are what you want for the Fader group. so while you're still in GLOBAL setup, set EXP1 and EXP2 to use MIDI Channel 1.

To set a Preset to Toggle the Mute for a mixer channel, you set the value to '0' for mute, and '127' for unmute.  In the example from above, with CNT 1 set to CC#31 and value '00', if we also set CNT2 to CC# 31, but value 127, you now have a Mute Toggle.

Next, setting the Expression pedals.  The CC#s and values for the Expression pedals are set by a Preset. For example, in that same preset, set EXP 1 to CC# 0 (zero) and EXP2 to CC# 31 and set the minimum and maximum value to 00 and 127 for both.  Save it and exit. Try the expression pedals - they do Nothing!!!  Remember, you have to select a preset (preferably one you've programmed!) to get the expression pedals working.  So you hit the footswitch you just programmed.  Now try the pedals again, and you'll find the right expression pedal controls Master Volume (CC# 31), and the left controls the volume for channel 1 (CC# 00).  Hopefully... If not, try programming it again.

You can have the Preset set up the Expression pedals AND send a Mute on/off at the same time, but make sure you know what you're sending. For example, you could set up Preset 1 to mute Main LR and set up one of the expression pedals for Main LR Volume.  Just remember when you press it the first time, it will mute MainLR (if set up the way I did above), and then the Volume fader won't matter.  Well, it will matter - the fader will move, you just won't hear it until you unmute it by pressing the Preset again.

One oddity - what I called Min and Max for the Expression pedal values is actually a misnomer.  Those values are actually called "closed" (heel down) and "open" (toe down) by Behringer.  Why do you care?  Because the closed value doesn't have to be less than the open value!  e.g.: Set one pedal for main volume normally, and then set the other pedal to AuxLineIn volume (CC# 16), but reverse the values.  Yes, that is a legal setup.  Now if you fat foot it and move both pedals up (open) at the same time, you'll turn down the AuxLineIn at the same time you're turning UP the MainLR volume.  Crazy! :-)

That should be enough of an example to get you going.  Have fun with it.

Re: Which Prom is the best to use with Ableton and which mode of that Prom?

chrisw_63
 

UnO, with the UnO Control Center, without reservation.  It makes programming the FCB1010 a hundred times easier, AND you can turn off the annoying Tap Tempo function.  Worth every penny.

'Stomp' mode is the only 'mode' I know of (never used Eureka), and I don't use it.  I can't see my feet while sitting at the keyboard, so "das blinkenlights" don't help me at all.  If you like the indicator lights, and can see them while you play, or if you find a need for keeping one row of five foot switches doing only one thing while you use banks to change the other row, Stomp mode is for you.

Hope this helps.