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Re: Conflict with controllers in Ableton? FCB1010 midi mapping works then fails

Len Brown
 

Thanks for the responses EJ and ossandust.  And thanks EJ for going to the trouble of creating the sysex file and posting.  So I downloaded MidiOX to monitor.  I loaded up EJ's sysex into the FCB. Opened MidiOX to monitor. When MidiOX is running alone I get the expected CC messages from the FCB. Open Ableton.  Mapped button 6 to toggle record, button 1 to the clip controller. Push button 6 to arm the track, Push button 2 to launch and record a new clip.  Clip records then I get the same bad behavior in Ableton as before.  Go to MidiOX and the monitor is scrolling endlessly with command after command.  Attached is a screen shot of Ableton's midi set up and mapping. Also attached is a Midi Ox screen shot with four lines which is what I get pushing pedal 6 and 1 with Ableton running.  The second MidiOX screen shot with two lines is what I get pushing pedal 6 and 1 after I closed down Ableton.  Looks like Ableton is not processing the commands properly? 


Re: Conflict with controllers in Ableton? FCB1010 midi mapping works then fails

ossandust
 

This appears to be a bug in this Midi monitor. The FCB1010 doesn't send NoteOff MIDI messages at all. Instead it sends a NoteOn message with velocity 0, which according to the MIDI spec is a valid (and even preferred) alternative for a NoteOff message. It is a known issue that several software applications which use NoteOn messages for something else than playing notes forgot about this part of the MIDI spec, and incorrectly treat this type of NoteOff as a NoteOn.


Re: Conflict with controllers in Ableton? FCB1010 midi mapping works then fails

EJ SHELDON
 

Sorry, I sent the test sysex, which sends a bunch of stuff you don't need. Here's a cleaner version.


Re: Conflict with controllers in Ableton? FCB1010 midi mapping works then fails

EJ SHELDON
 
Edited

In the attached screenshots, note that the first pair of NOTE messages are from the FCB, and the second pair from my APC mini.
Note the VELOCITY.
For the FCB pair MIDI MONITOR reports:
NOTE ON = 100
NOTE OFF = 64

MIDIOX reports:
NOTE ON = 100
NOTE OFF = 0

For the APC pair MIDI MONITOR reports:

NOTE ON = 127
NOTE OFF = 127

MIDIOX reports:
NOTE ON = 127
NOTE OFF = 127

Therein lies the problem, and there's no way I know of to change the NOTE OFF VELOCITY in the FCB.

The solution is to forget NOTEs and use CCs.
In the attached sysex FCB Presets 1-10 are set to CC#s which send VALUE = 127.

They mapped correctly and toggled everything I tried.





Re: Conflict with controllers in Ableton? FCB1010 midi mapping works then fails

Len Brown
 

Thanks for the replies.  I decided to drop the script. As to the cable I am using a Midisport Uno that came with the FCB that I bought used. So I have no script loaded in Ableton only the in and out for Midisport Uno enabled for track and remote.  I disconnected the APC40 (not MPC40!) and mapped FCB pedal one to the record button on track one and mapped pedal 2 to the clip transport button that is only visible in midi map mode in Ableton.  Pedal one toggles the record button just fine.  I arm record with pedal one, push pedal two to record and get the behavior above in Ableton (unable to to stop the clip, FCB commands do nothing) I then went to the midi monitor website and pushed pedal one on the FCB.  The result is attached. In the FCB editor(pic attached) I only have a note being sent from the FCB yet I am getting a double entry in the midi monitor.  I then connected the APC40 and opened the midi monitor and noticed when I use the APC40 to arm track one to record I only get one entry in the midi monitor.  Any ideas or comments are greatly appreciated!


Thanks,



Len


Re: Conflict with controllers in Ableton? FCB1010 midi mapping works then fails

Stephen Hannah
 

I was finding a lot of these same issues until I bought a new midi interface (which fixed everything). Which midi interface are you using? I got the the mio, and it works soooo well!

Also use https://www.midimonitor.com/ (using Chrome browser) to see what midi messages are being sent. I imagine you're getting a lot of junk from the midi interface and that's why Ableton is being weird. 

Best,
Stephen

On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 6:19 AM chrisw_63 <chrisw_63@...> wrote:
The FCB1020 script is purportedly an APC40 Emulator.  I've never used it, but from the Readme on Github, it does exactly what it says.  It sends commands to Ableton emulating and APC40.  So, yeah, it would Definitely mess up the hardware APC40 (Guessing that 'MPC40' was a typo.  Akai's naming scheme leaves a bit to be desired, but there is no MPC40).  And then you programmed the FCB1010 to send notes.  And then mapped those MIDI notes.  Wow....

The FCB1010 works fine with Ableton Live without a script.  In order for the script to work correctly, the FCB1010 has to send a specific set of MIDI commands that the script then translates to... something.  The README in the GitHub package details how to send the SYSEX for those MIDI commands to the FCB1010.  If you then program the FCB1010 to send something else:
  • The script might not be getting what it expects any more.
  • Unless you know exactly what the script does, you don't know how the MIDI you programmed into the FCB is going to affect the script.
  • The FCB1010 can send one note, two CC messages, and five PC messages for each button press.  Between the script and your custom programming/mapping, it could be trying to do several things at the same time, possibly (probably, from your description) interfering with each other AND sending who knows what to the actual APC40.

This is bound to give even FCB1010 pros a headache!!!  My advice:  Drop the script.  Yes, if you know Python, Ableton scripting, and that script, you could probably get them to coexist.  But it'll be a lot of work.  If you really feel you need that, have fun.  But there's a lot the FCB1010 can do without a special script.  I urge you to give that a try and see if it fills your needs.


Re: Conflict with controllers in Ableton? FCB1010 midi mapping works then fails

chrisw_63
 

The FCB1020 script is purportedly an APC40 Emulator.  I've never used it, but from the Readme on Github, it does exactly what it says.  It sends commands to Ableton emulating and APC40.  So, yeah, it would Definitely mess up the hardware APC40 (Guessing that 'MPC40' was a typo.  Akai's naming scheme leaves a bit to be desired, but there is no MPC40).  And then you programmed the FCB1010 to send notes.  And then mapped those MIDI notes.  Wow....

The FCB1010 works fine with Ableton Live without a script.  In order for the script to work correctly, the FCB1010 has to send a specific set of MIDI commands that the script then translates to... something.  The README in the GitHub package details how to send the SYSEX for those MIDI commands to the FCB1010.  If you then program the FCB1010 to send something else:
  • The script might not be getting what it expects any more.
  • Unless you know exactly what the script does, you don't know how the MIDI you programmed into the FCB is going to affect the script.
  • The FCB1010 can send one note, two CC messages, and five PC messages for each button press.  Between the script and your custom programming/mapping, it could be trying to do several things at the same time, possibly (probably, from your description) interfering with each other AND sending who knows what to the actual APC40.

This is bound to give even FCB1010 pros a headache!!!  My advice:  Drop the script.  Yes, if you know Python, Ableton scripting, and that script, you could probably get them to coexist.  But it'll be a lot of work.  If you really feel you need that, have fun.  But there's a lot the FCB1010 can do without a special script.  I urge you to give that a try and see if it fills your needs.


Conflict with controllers in Ableton? FCB1010 midi mapping works then fails

Len Brown
 

I have several things going on. I am working with Ableton Live 9 suite. I have an MPC40 Mk 2, and MPD218 and a MPK mini in addition to the FCB1010.
1.  I am using the FCB1020 script because I am unable to run the FCB1010 script except in adminstrrator mode.  Is there anyway to make FCB1010 script available in live in non administrator mode? Can I just choose no script to make the FCB1010 do only what I set up?
2.  I set up the FCB1010 to send midi notes for each pedal.  Start Ableton Live.  I mapped pedal 6 to arm track 1, pedal 1 to launch clip #1 in track one. I push pedal 6 to arm, then pedal 1 to launch the clip.  Clip records.  I am not recording anything yet, just trying to get the commands working properly first.  After that I am unable to turn off the arm button on the track.  The midi track recorded  has note 127 at the beginning of the track.  I am also unable to stop the clip from playing except to delete it.  Mouse will not stop the overall app from playing, so Ableton just keeps playing.  Pedals no longer do anything in Live.  
3.  Once I send commands from FCB1010 to Ableton the APC 40 goes haywire, lights up different buttons in a strange way and does not work.

I would like to use button 6 to arm a track, button 1 to start recording a clip, and do the same thing with the other tracks build clips in a scene.
Any ideas on where to start?

Thanks
Len


Expression Pedal Basics: Take Control!

Faith Banini <faithbanini@...>
 

 
Learn how to take control of the expression pedal and how the volume pedal can be hacked and converted to an expression pedal. 
 


Re: Expression Pedals Ableton

Len Brown
 

Thanks for the quick responses....I was getting the control changes in Ableton.  When I mapped pedal #1 to the volume in Ableton and pressed the #1 button the volume would toggle between min and max.  Then I tried recalibrating the expression pedals....now they work just fine!  Newbie mistake...

Thanks,

Len  


Re: Expression Pedals Ableton

EJ SHELDON
 

See the attached screenshot to configure Ableton to receive MIDI from the FCB.
My FCB is called "USB Interface".
Don't forget that you have to press a pedal that has the Expression pedal assigned before it will send. 


Re: Expression Pedals Ableton

Michael McInerney <mickiemac@...>
 

I’m new to it as well.

What I’ve found is that you have to turn off program change (switches 1-5) and turn on send and receive (6&7) then also turn on the expression pedal (either 8 or 9 depending). After that set the values and channels. So to do the volume pedal you highlight pedal 8, set it at Number ___. Try 1. Then set the value of 1 to 00 and Value 2 to 127.

After that you can go into Ableton, click midi map and then try the volume pedal which should map then.

FWIW, I spent ages setting up my pedal by pushing the buttons because I found the midi edit utility clunky.

I found this pretty useful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5WvQVX2U7I&list=LLmxHPgSVnos_-cUNBHZ7qjg&index=61&t=0s

 

I’m sure that many others have other (possibly better) ways of doing this.

Once you get over this little hump, you’ll be rockin it.

 

Programming your fcb will give you heaps of isolation time so have fun and stay well 😊

Michael

 

From: main@fcb1010.groups.io <main@fcb1010.groups.io> On Behalf Of lenbrowncce@...
Sent: Wednesday, 25 March 2020 11:27 AM
To: main@fcb1010.groups.io
Subject: [fcb1010] Expression Pedals Ableton

 

Hello,

I am new to this beast and yes I am experiencing the learning curve.  I am trying to control master volume (or any slider or knob really) in Ableton Live with the expression pedal. I have attached my current set up, transmitted to the FCB1010 then received it back in the editor to be sure the setup was saved.  I went into midi map in Ableton, clicked the volume control and moved the pedal but no mapping was recorded in Ableton. Can anyone tell me how to map the expression pedal to the volume control in Ableton? 
 


Expression Pedals Ableton

Len Brown
 

Hello,

I am new to this beast and yes I am experiencing the learning curve.  I am trying to control master volume (or any slider or knob really) in Ableton Live with the expression pedal. I have attached my current set up, transmitted to the FCB1010 then received it back in the editor to be sure the setup was saved.  I went into midi map in Ableton, clicked the volume control and moved the pedal but no mapping was recorded in Ableton. Can anyone tell me how to map the expression pedal to the volume control in Ableton? 
 


Re: Better MIDI Documentation / Implementation

EJ SHELDON
 

Can you say "Tilting at windmills"?


Better MIDI Documentation / Implementation

chrisw_63
 

Quoting EJ SHELDON:  "When it comes to MIDI, they're not famous for crystal clear descriptions. Then, none of the amp sim vendors are. But that's a rant for another day....."

Hmm.. I'm wondering, We have a fairly decent sized community here.  Is there any chance a community letter to the companies that make these products would have an impact?  Something like:
  • You make these products for people to USE.
  • MIDI Pedals and other MIDI controllers make them much easier to use, especially in a performance or recording environment.
  • Your products would be more popular and used more (read: PUBLICITY) if you'd make them easier to use with MIDI controllers while at the same time compliant to MIDI standards.
  • Even documenting your MIDI interface better would help in this area.
Let's face it - Companies that make hardware MIDI devices - Amps, Amp emulators, Effect Pedals, etc. aren't our target here.  They want their product visible out front, not someone else's MIDI pedal or controller.  We could send them the letter anyway, with a slightly different bent to target them better.  But I think the end around approach would be better.  Target plugin and software emulator companies first.
They have no public face other than a computer or tablet screen.  The easier their soft instruments and/or effects are to use, assuming they're good in the first place, the more people will want to use them.  And when someone with some notoriety gets interviewed and asked, "What's an FCB1010, I've never heard of that pedal." They can say, "Oh, that just controls <virtual product(s) here>.  Xyz company made it easy to connect to my MIDI pedal and use their software effects live!".  We all win.

With MIDI 2.0 gaining popularity and slowly rolling out, I can imagine future controllers that just work.  Tap a knob, tap a control, and they're linked, and the setup saved in the controller as well as the software.  Without any prior setup or jumping though hoops!  More advanced pedalboards are not that far away (I Hope!), and the plugin/emulator companies are going to have to get with it sooner or later.  All we need is ONE popular plugin to go "pro-MIDI", and the others will have to follow suit or get left behind.

The FCB1010 community wouldn't be the only people to benefit from such changes, either. We could see if McMillen, IK Multimeda and other users want to chime in.  Am I just smoking the wrong pipe here?


Re: Programming flowchart X-Air 18

networker1@...
 

So... I am able to program the controller (Mind you I have the stock Behringer FW) to control the X-Air 18. No issues. I have been able to program stompbox mode to control the mutes, however, the LED on the pedal remains on. Is there a way or a setting to make it turn off and on? Or any trick to make it turn off and on?? . 


The expression pedals on Behringer FCB1010 MIDI foot controller

Faith Banini <faithbanini@...>
 

 
Do you want to calibrate the expression pedals on your Behringer FCB1010?
 
Here are the steps below to 
 


Re: Brand New dummy ;-)

EJ SHELDON
 

Only had time for Cold Sweat, but way cool!
I also have a Steinie (Spirit), and a Steinie bass.
Very under appreciated instruments.


Re: Brand New dummy ;-)

Matt Miller
 

Dear EJ
           You THE man,   You are sooooo kind in helping everyone !
Starting at the end of your letter.......The reason I use my Laptop, is for 2 things.
1.  Its my outdoor battery backup BAND !  I use Sound Forge to play ~ 50 different Loops/songs :-)
2.  As well as my effects, via Native Guitar Rig
( I can even run a Mic and my guitar in separate stereo channels in GR :-)  )

As an Outdoor Busker.......since the Laptop is running on Battery, as everything else........ its a 'keeper' :-)

Since the FCB is soooo huge.....I was thinking that it would be nice to have the GR Synth under my chair ( I sit), out of the way.
with the FCB controlling it.
I only use ~ 8 presets on the GR Synth, and only ~ 2 mainly from Guitar Rig ( could be 4-8 if I can get this all working)
I do want the Wah :-)

So, as you suggest  I'll buy the Software.........and see if that's enough for me :-)

The Helix....no money.....and ........I really do LOVE my quad Delay in Guitar Rig

fyi...Everything I run has its own state of the art, rechargeable batts!
Roland Cube Street EX
A Video Lighting 12V Battery Belt powers my Synth :-)
Behringer ( 2 - 9V) Mixer
and Laptop ...which powers my Focusrite 2x4 USB Audio with Native GR Effects and Band :-)

Here's my schtick with tons of video samples
http://onemanmatt.com/


Re: Brand New dummy ;-)

EJ SHELDON
 

If all you need to do is change Presets then no, you don't need UNO. I do, however, recommend getting the UNO_ControlCenter Editor. It works with UNO AND the stock Chip. If you want to, say, turn ON/OFF devices (OD, Fuzz, Delay, Reverb, etc) then get the UNO Chip.

You're using two physical devices. You'll want them receiving PC (Program Change = PC) messages on  2 different MIDI Channels.
Likewise, Expression pedal info (Wah, Volume, Delay time, etc). You can assign one Expression pedal to each device, or both to one, and do so per FCB preset, by using separate MIDI Channels, and unlike the ON/OFF controllers, you can change the MIDI Channels per FCB Preset.
With UNO you'll have 5 ON/OFF buttons in each FCB Bank. They'll send the same 5 CC (Continuous Controller messages) on the same 2 MIDI Channels, in every FCB bank.
Each ON/OFF button can send 2 different CC messages, on separate MIDI Channels. But they'll be the same messages on the same channels in every bank.

Those are just a few examples things to think about.
 
You're wanting to do a LOT.
You'll need to be specific about EXACTLY what you want to be able to do, and you'll need an in-depth understanding of how GR5 and the GR9 work.

If you search recent threads on using GR5, I've provided in depth instructions and a UNO_ControlCenter (Editor) sysex for use with GR5.
Once you've read up on it and tried the provided sysex, I'll be happy to answer specific questions
I know bupkus about the GR9.

You mentioned being a Computer Pro. When I worked in that field I made good money, and music was a hobby.
If this describes your situation, then I recommend that you dump the FCB for a Line6 Helix (best Multi-fx + MIDI implementation). The Helix is very capable of controlling the GR9, probably better than the FCB, even with UNO, and you can put the GR9 in a Helix FX loop, thus integrating the whole system. It also sounds MUCH better (and has better support) than GR5, and eliminates the fragile computer from the live performance scenario.

Just sayin'.

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