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回复: 回复: [fcb1010] Upgrade Questions

"疯狂的灵魂
 

Thank you!you r best!


------------------ 原始邮件 ------------------
发件人: "Roger Colwell"<roger.colwell@...>;
发送时间: 2019年12月13日(星期五) 晚上8:28
收件人: "main"<main@fcb1010.groups.io>;
主题: Re: 回复: [fcb1010] Upgrade Questions

Everything UnO may be found here:
https://www.fcb1010.eu/

Also, if you invest in UnO you might also apply to join their specialist group here (in our subgroup):
https://fcb1010.groups.io/g/uno
--
Roger Colwell
FCB1010 & FCB1010_UnO Group Owner/Moderator


Re: 回复: [fcb1010] Upgrade Questions

Roger Colwell
 

Everything UnO may be found here:
https://www.fcb1010.eu/

Also, if you invest in UnO you might also apply to join their specialist group here (in our subgroup):
https://fcb1010.groups.io/g/uno
--
Roger Colwell
FCB1010 & FCB1010_UnO Group Owner/Moderator


回复: [fcb1010] Upgrade Questions

"疯狂的灵魂
 

Anybody kown where I can download Uno rom?I can`t open yahoo,so I have no idea to got it .
thank you!


------------------ 原始邮件 ------------------
发件人: "David Grosz via Groups.Io"<davidgrosz2205@...>;
发送时间: 2019年12月13日(星期五) 晚上7:33
收件人: "main"<main@fcb1010.groups.io>;
主题: Re: [fcb1010] Upgrade Questions

Upgrade to the UNO chip and get their editor.  By doing so you can assign any switch to do anything
including Stomp Mode based per switch and not rows.  The Eureka Prom is for people that want a
upgrade that has function predetermined for them.  UNO to me is far and above a must have upgrade

On Wednesday, December 11, 2019, 3:14:07 PM PST, llatham@... <llatham@...> wrote:


Here's what I'd like:

Bank 0, ability to assign CC messages to each of the 10 pedals.

Bank 1, ability to have bottom row of 5 send PC messages, and top row of 5 send the following:

FS6 - CCXX, 127/0 - to toggle on and off an effect.

FS7 - CCXY on 1st press, CCXZ on 2nd press, both with a value of 127 (this is how it works stock in "toggle" mode, but the LEDs of course can't be lit with FS 1-5 lit).

FS8 and 9 would be a similar layout - 1 FX on/off, the 2nd toggle between two FX on.

FS10 - CC64 - one press 127 and that's it - I'd need to press it twice but it could be momentary instead of latch. If not, at leas the ability to send CC64 127 on the first press and CC64 on the 2nd press and have the LED go on then off in those two presses (it's for Tap Tempo on a device that uses CC64 and two presses (127 each time) in a row to give the tempo).

Bank 2 - All 10 FS send PC messages.

Bank 3 - All 10 FS send CC messages (for FX on/off, lights toggle as well)

Bank 4, some other combination of PC select on all 10 or subset thereof, or CC on all 10 or some subset thereof etc.

And so on.

From what I'm reading the Eureka upgrade just makes ONLY ONE bank a Stombox Mode, and then the other Banks do other things that are preset and I can't reprogram - is that true?

BTW, have a Mac, so programming would have to be done on the FCB itself I think.


Re: Upgrade Questions

David Grosz
 

Upgrade to the UNO chip and get their editor.  By doing so you can assign any switch to do anything
including Stomp Mode based per switch and not rows.  The Eureka Prom is for people that want a
upgrade that has function predetermined for them.  UNO to me is far and above a must have upgrade

On Wednesday, December 11, 2019, 3:14:07 PM PST, llatham@... <llatham@...> wrote:


Here's what I'd like:

Bank 0, ability to assign CC messages to each of the 10 pedals.

Bank 1, ability to have bottom row of 5 send PC messages, and top row of 5 send the following:

FS6 - CCXX, 127/0 - to toggle on and off an effect.

FS7 - CCXY on 1st press, CCXZ on 2nd press, both with a value of 127 (this is how it works stock in "toggle" mode, but the LEDs of course can't be lit with FS 1-5 lit).

FS8 and 9 would be a similar layout - 1 FX on/off, the 2nd toggle between two FX on.

FS10 - CC64 - one press 127 and that's it - I'd need to press it twice but it could be momentary instead of latch. If not, at leas the ability to send CC64 127 on the first press and CC64 on the 2nd press and have the LED go on then off in those two presses (it's for Tap Tempo on a device that uses CC64 and two presses (127 each time) in a row to give the tempo).

Bank 2 - All 10 FS send PC messages.

Bank 3 - All 10 FS send CC messages (for FX on/off, lights toggle as well)

Bank 4, some other combination of PC select on all 10 or subset thereof, or CC on all 10 or some subset thereof etc.

And so on.

From what I'm reading the Eureka upgrade just makes ONLY ONE bank a Stombox Mode, and then the other Banks do other things that are preset and I can't reprogram - is that true?

BTW, have a Mac, so programming would have to be done on the FCB itself I think.


Re: Upgrade Questions

EJ SHELDON
 
Edited

We all have our unique workflows, and configuring the Scene Changes on the FCB to conform to your specific needs makes total sense, especially if you have all of your scene banks/folders in use already.

The need to have 12 CCs available to control all the available effects can be worked around by overlapping FCB Banks, so it's not necessarily a killer problem.

I'm sure you have a plan that works for you. All of what follows is for my own edification. I'll probably never own an M13, as I have Helix, but people (here and elsewhere) are always asking how to use the FCB for all sorts of things, so I'm curious. I've attached a sysex that more or less conforms to how I'd set up to use an M13. It assumes that, in order to have what I would consider an elegant/intuitive configuration given the 10 button per bank limitations of the FCB, I'm only using two of the three available effects in each of the four effects units, and 32 of the available 48 scenes.

I'm hoping that, at your convenience, you might load up the attached sysex and test it out on your M13. 

EDIT: see subsequent post for attachments

Thanks in advance!


Re: Upgrade Questions

llatham@...
 
Edited

My question would be whether it was necessary to send BOTH CC#s or does the M13's internal logic know, when using MIDI, to turn OFF 1B when ON is received at 1A and vice versa? You'd likely have to test.

No, it's only necessary to send the "on" message for Pedal 1B - it will automatically turn off 1A and vice versa. So all that's need is like CC11 127, then CC12 127.

I only have to send 0 then 127 on the SAME CC# (to turn on and off a single pedal effect in slot 1A for example).
My other question is - why would you want to use the FCB to control the M13's stomps?

Because Line 6 unethically used really poor footswitches (the same ones that they know good and well are faulty they've been putting in the MM4, DL4, etc. series for decades now...) and the footswitches won't engage/disengage. They're all "iffy" and only work some of the time.

By sending MIDI messages, I bypass the M13s crappy footswitches (that now only work when they want to) and can still use this device (which is the only device in the price range I've found will do what I want).

The other aspect is though, I can actually get to all 48 Scenes of the M13 using an external controller - you have to do multiple steps to get this to happen - like I can have 1 button push on the FCB take me from a patch in Bank 1 (assuming I'm already there) to one in Bank 3.  It takes at least 3 steps to do that on the M13, one of which has do be done with your hand. While it might be more button pushes on the FCB to get through all the banks, it's a whole lot easier to "scroll" through the banks with your feet and then step on another FS than it is to do on the M13.

The screen shot looks good - but where you have the PC11 for example that's actually a CC# instead.
 -
PC 11 would take you to SCENE 12, which would be the last one in bank 1, that has 12 FX in it. Then each of those FX are turned on and off with CC#s

So would be like Scene "4C", but that would then have 1A-C, 2A-C, 3A-C, and 4A-C within it that one Scene - which are all individual locations various FX can be stored in which you'd turn on and off again with the CC#s.


Re: Upgrade Questions

EJ SHELDON
 

UNO, in STOMP Mode allows you to assign your STOMP switches to either the top or bottom row (1-5 or 6-10).
Assume that you've assigned them to the bottom row (1-5).
You've assigned STOMP 1 CC1 to CC#11 Value1=0 Value2=127; CC2 is assigned to CC#12 Value1=127 Value2=0.
When you press STOMP 1 The LED comes ON because you've sent a Value of 0 (ON) on CC1 (CC#11). You've also sent a Value of 127 (OFF) on CC2 (CC#12).
The next time you press STOMP 1 the opposite happens.
Since you have four effects (1A/B;2A/B;3A/B;4A/B, you're good to go (as long as every scene uses only A and B effects) with a STOMP leftover (toggle FX Loop? TAP TEMPO?).

My question would be whether it was necessary to send BOTH CC#s or does the M13's internal logic know, when using MIDI, to turn OFF 1B when ON is received at 1A and vice versa? You'd likely have to test.

That takes care of the scenario you posed, but what of effect 1C? You've got a simple two way switch where you need a three way with complex logic.

My other question is - why would you want to use the FCB to control the M13's stomps?

I can see a use for the FCB if you want to leave the M13 in Stomp Mode and use the FCB to control scenes and the Looper, and utilize the expression pedals and amp switching feature (if you have a channel switching amp).

Here's a screenshot (UNO_ControlCenter) of what such a configuration might look like.
Looper is controlled with the STOMP pedals, only the most important functions plus TAP TEMPO. 



Re: Upgrade Questions

llatham@...
 
Edited

So you're saying if I press FS1, then FS6 is going to send - let's say CC15, then if I press FS2, FS6 is STILL going to send CC15 yes?

Let me see if any of this will help: I'm controlling a Line 6 M13.

It has 4 Banks of 12 "Scenes" (accessed by PC#s) and each Scene has 12 FX in it (CCXX 64-127 on, and CCXX 0-63 off).

Now the M13 has one awesome feature, but it plays havoc on stuff like this.

The 12 FX are in a 4x3 grid where there are 4 "Columns" (1-4) of 3 FX each (A-C). You can have only 1 effect on at a time in one Column.

But the cool thing about this is, let's say you have 1A on. You don't have to turn off 1A and then turn on 1B if you want to change from 1A to 1B. You simply press 1B and it will actually de-activate 1A!!!

This is really handy for FX you'd probably never use at the same time - so I might put Chorus in 2A and Flange in 2B. From bypass, I can pick either one and turn it on and off. Or, I can pick Chorus, then press Flange and it turns Flange on, but deactivates the Chorus.

This would drive the status LEDs crazy but what I'm thinking about is putting something like Reverb on 3A, and Delay on 3B and "toggle" between them.

To do this, I would put Delay on 1B and that needs CC12 127 to turn it on. So I'd assign that to FS6 on the first push, to turn the LED on and send the CC12 127 message.

Then I'd need to be able to push FS6 again and have it send CC11 127 to turn on Reverb which I'd put in slot 1A, which would then de-activate the Delay when it comes on.

That way I could effectively toggle between the two - but FS6 would need to be able to send TWO DIFFERENT CC values - CC11 and CC12 for example.

If it could do this it would be great because "off" would be Reverb - which I'd leave on all the time anyway, and then "On" would turn Delay on, and kill the Verb, then "Off" would actually turn the Verb on and kill the Delay.

So it sounds like from what you're saying FS6 could "toggle" and send two different CC#s - not just 0 and 127 (or 63 and 64, whatever) on the same CC# - but just that once this is set up, FS6 is always going to send those same commands in any preset.

That would actually be kind of useful - because I can change the effect type and order on the M13 side if I need to.

But just to be clear, I can set up Bank 1 with 5 Presets and 5 stomps, then Bank 2 with 5 DIFFERENT Presets (different PC#s) and 5 Stomps BUT those 5 Stomps will have to be the SAME setup they are in Bank 1 - and Bank 3-9, etc.

I think this would be OK - I would just have to use only the 5 Bank switches to send the CC (yes CC) messages for the Looper in say, Bank 0 (and I can make it so one Bank doesn't send PC messages on the bottom row, right?).


Re: Upgrade Questions

EJ SHELDON
 

Main thing to keep in mind with UNO is that every bank has the same 5 Stompboxes. The other 5 pedals can be programmed for PC, and /or CC, and/or NOTE..
Also, the 5 Stomps can each send 5 PCs on 5 Channels, toggle 2 CCs (I believe CC1 gets the synced LED) and send one NOTE. I haven't personally found this very useful, but if you have a complex MIDI rig with many devices, it could be. 
Another also - each of the 5 Preset buttons in each Bank, in addition to being able to send 5 PCs and a NOTE on separate channels, can also be configured to toggle 2 CCs on a second pedal press (Value 1 sent by default on Preset load, no LED sync. CC Channels are GLOBAL), and the Expression pedals can be set to use any CC on any Channel.
Again, most useful in complex MIDI rigs.


Re: Upgrade Questions

llatham@...
 

Thanks EJ - yes, actually I can do all of this Stock except the LEDs. I've been programming it on the FCB itself so it's not that bad.

I just looked at the UNO one and that looks promising, but there's no "all 10" mode with synced LEDs, but worst case, as long as I can program other Banks to do other things - which it looks like it can, I should be OK.


Re: Upgrade Questions

EJ SHELDON
 

EDIT:

Using the stock chip, you can probably use one of the free editors to do what you want. EXCEPT the synced LEDs.


Re: Upgrade Questions

EJ SHELDON
 

From what I've read on their site, there's a user mode that can be fully programmed. Whether it will allow you to do all you've asked, I have no clue. I THINK it requires that it be programmed manually on the FCB (no editor). That would be a deal killer for me, especially given your needs. Best thing to do would be to ask them.

As for your wish list, everything BUT the synced LEDs can be done with the stock chip, easily, using the UNO_ControlCenter Editor.
Yes, it works with the stock chip. Yes, there's a MAC version. Yes, it's more than worth the $22 it costs.

Using the stock chip, you can probably use one of the free editors to do what you want. I've used them. That's why I recommend the UNO_ControlCenter.


Upgrade Questions

llatham@...
 

Here's what I'd like:

Bank 0, ability to assign CC messages to each of the 10 pedals.

Bank 1, ability to have bottom row of 5 send PC messages, and top row of 5 send the following:

FS6 - CCXX, 127/0 - to toggle on and off an effect.

FS7 - CCXY on 1st press, CCXZ on 2nd press, both with a value of 127 (this is how it works stock in "toggle" mode, but the LEDs of course can't be lit with FS 1-5 lit).

FS8 and 9 would be a similar layout - 1 FX on/off, the 2nd toggle between two FX on.

FS10 - CC64 - one press 127 and that's it - I'd need to press it twice but it could be momentary instead of latch. If not, at leas the ability to send CC64 127 on the first press and CC64 on the 2nd press and have the LED go on then off in those two presses (it's for Tap Tempo on a device that uses CC64 and two presses (127 each time) in a row to give the tempo).

Bank 2 - All 10 FS send PC messages.

Bank 3 - All 10 FS send CC messages (for FX on/off, lights toggle as well)

Bank 4, some other combination of PC select on all 10 or subset thereof, or CC on all 10 or some subset thereof etc.

And so on.

From what I'm reading the Eureka upgrade just makes ONLY ONE bank a Stombox Mode, and then the other Banks do other things that are preset and I can't reprogram - is that true?

BTW, have a Mac, so programming would have to be done on the FCB itself I think.


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Re: FCB1010 as Bass pedal

Chris Burns
 

I have been following this thread with anticipation since the question was first asked. I am glad that the community manged to come up with a solution. I have used the Bome Interface on a few occasions for trying to trap CC commands & SysEx from my Roland GR-55. I have planned to use my FCB1010 Uno to control the GR-55 as a fully adjustable parameter Stompbox…

I also use my FCB1010 Uno with my Yamaha Motif Rack ES & GI-20 Guitar Midi Synthesizer interface to play the motif notes from my Ibanez Bass. The Bome software was also used to route the array of USB & 5-Pin Midi connections.

Since then I have ditched using the Bome software and I now use an Iconnectivity Midio4+ for All of my midi merging & routing requirements. It has 4 * 5-pin Din IN/Out Ports, Connectivity for 3 Devices using USB and this doesn’t include the Computer which acts as the DAW Host. The Iconnectivity unit also has Midi over Ethernet RSe which opens up the Iconnectivity routing Midi over Ethernet providing Access to WiFi & Cabled Devices. The possibilities for connectivity just seem to be numerous!

 

I did initially try running midi mapping / routing software on both the PC & MAC software and although the Macbook Pro is lighter than my Windows Laptop it was still the hassle of taking a computer to practices & Gigs when I wasn’t using Sequencing or DAW capabilities only as a glorified router.

I just power-up the Iconnectivity and thats it! Midi Comms  Away.

I am liking the current track and thoughts of using an Arduino for routing as this should definitely scale down the size the solution and will be cheaper than the solution I opted to go with.

I am happy with my installation using the Iconnectivity but if searching for a home built cheaper solution its definitely a consideration

Chris


Re: FCB1010 as Bass pedal

chrisw_63
 

Any microcontroller with native USB functionality (USB on the chip) can do USB MIDI. This includes atmega32u4 based boards and many ARM boards, most of which can be programmed using the Arduino programming environment.  Several of Adafruit's Feather line of microcontroller boards have this (I think it's all of them, but I'm not sure).  I have the Feather 32u4 Bluefruit, and it does USB MIDI and Bluetooth MIDI just fine.  The Teensy line of Arduino 'compatible' (they can do SO much more than the Arduino..lol) microcontroller boards can also do USB MIDI, and they're a little cheaper, at least at the low end, than the Feathers.

If I recall correctly, the USB section has to be reprogrammed for USB MIDI, so after the first program upload to enable it, you lose the ability to program it via on board USB.  You'll need a separate USB to TTL serial board (commonly called FTDI after the chip used) to program it after that.  You can use the FTDI to put the original bootloader back, restoring the board to it's original function if needed.  But while you're debugging the USB MIDI part, it's probably better to just use the FTDI.  That's why I like the Bluetooth version - I can debug all the MIDI stuff over Bluetooth, then deal with USB MIDI last.


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Re: FCB1010 as Bass pedal

JM
 

OK, now I see. The documentation is not clear about this. You really need the MIDI shield and an USB to MIDI cable in order to try the Arduino with SendSX. I doubt that you can directly connect the USB cable to the Arduino directly because you would need a driver for that, I guess, and there is no way of installing this on the Arduino, but I could be wrong.


Re: FCB1010 as Bass pedal

JM
 
Edited

No, I only tested the Bome Translator version. The Arduino version is not tested. I only compiled it on the Arduino IDE and it did without errors. It is just a port from my other version.

Since I don't have the MIDI shield, I couldn't test it. I finally decided to go for a Raspberry pi.

What you read on the documentation is just an idea on how to test it.

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