FCB1010 USB Conversion


mweetman@...
 

Hi
Is anyone aware of an FCB1010 USB conversion? This would be a USB port that powers the FCB1010 as well as operating as a USB MIDI port.
Thanks
Martin



FishOOW
 

Wow! Great idea!! Don't know why I didn't think of that.
-My first place to start would be Parts Express: the #1 source for audio, video & speaker building components

 

Parts list would be something like.

-USB chipset

-voltage converter


that may be it...


I'll check it out later. That would be awesome!

 


Jack Fenton
 

You might need to check what the current (power) demands are of the FCB-1010 first.


chrisw_63
 

I am not aware of one, but I've been planning something similar, though a little extreme.

The current draw would be negligible if the LED's are sequenced - I have no idea if they are as-is.  My plan, should I ever get the time, would be to replace all the LED's with RGB versions (yes, I know I'd need to do custom wiring or a new PCB), replace the seven-segment LED display with an OLED display and the processor with a Teensy - an Arduino based microcontroller that is built for USB MIDI out of the box.

In any case, there are several MIDI to USB boxes out there.  Converting a Teensy or Arduino Nano (even smaller than the Teensy) to do the work for you shouldn't be very hard.  I think I'll try that first as a proof of concept and to get the MIDI code down for the bigger project.

Let me know if you have any ideas/suggestions, or if you hear of someone that's done it already.

Check out this video if you're interested in rolling your own: Version 2 Ableton Midi Pedal Foot Control Teensy Arduino with BPM feedback

 


mweetman@...
 

OK, I'll come clean. I have 2 prototypes working using Arduino Pro Micros & a step up convertor.

The biggest issue was getting the supply clean enough for the Expression pedals. The FCB1010 consumes around 200mA, so USB powering isn't an issue.
Another problem was the size of the System Exclusive messages, which are larger than the RAM of the Arduino!
Anyway, I have solved these issues, & it works just the same as with MIDI, but with just USB connected (NO mains). My units are all Uno conversions, but it should work with a factory unit as it simply converts USB MIDI to conventional MIDI to the existing FCB circuitry.

I would like to ask if anyone would help me with testing?

The conversion is quite simple, & can easily be reversed. A hole needs to be cut in the FCB for the USB socket.
I'm based in the UK, so would like someone local to try it out.
Anyone interested?????
I'll convert your FCB & ship it back to you free of charge. If you don't like it, it can be switched back.
After more testing, I may make the conversion commercially available.


FishOOW
 

I am SO interested but I'm in the US. I am certainly inspired by your instigation and will likely follow through before April. Cheers and hope this works out for you.


Steven Hirsch
 

On Tue, 27 Dec 2016, mweetman@broadcom.com [fcb1010] wrote:


OK, I'll come clean. I have 2 prototypes working using Arduino Pro
Micros & a step up convertor.

Sounds great! But, I'm more interested in a single-cable mod at the
moment since I need 5-pin MIDI. The kits are showing as out-of-stock on
the Uno web site and I cannot even find a price for them.


Would rather buy one than roll my own.






--


mweetman@...
 

Thanks. I'll keep you informed on progress.


Eric D
 

Id buy it,  but I'm in Niagara Falls, Canada. 

I'm desperate for a good one cable solution. 

--
eric

On Dec 27, 2016, at 6:38 AM, mweetman@... [fcb1010] <fcb1010@...> wrote:

 

OK, I'll come clean. I have 2 prototypes working using Arduino Pro Micros & a step up convertor.

The biggest issue was getting the supply clean enough for the Expression pedals. The FCB1010 consumes around 200mA, so USB powering isn't an issue.
Another problem was the size of the System Exclusive messages, which are larger than the RAM of the Arduino!
Anyway, I have solved these issues, & it works just the same as with MIDI, but with just USB connected (NO mains). My units are all Uno conversions, but it should work with a factory unit as it simply converts USB MIDI to conventional MIDI to the existing FCB circuitry.

I would like to ask if anyone would help me with testing?

The conversion is quite simple, & can easily be reversed. A hole needs to be cut in the FCB for the USB socket.
I'm based in the UK, so would like someone local to try it out.
Anyone interested?????
I'll convert your FCB & ship it back to you free of charge. If you don't like it, it can be switched back.
After more testing, I may make the conversion commercially available.


Ian Ockwell-smith
 

Does your conversion mean that you can only use midi out or USB  but not both? Is the USB for programming or an out for controlling devices? I would be interested if it suits my needs.
 
I have an old Nobels MF2 foot controller that am hoping to gut and use a teensy to run it. Any tips on the programming would be handy.

Cheers

ian


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------
From: "mweetman@... [fcb1010]" <fcb1010@...>
Date: 28/12/2016 14:50 (GMT+00:00)
To: fcb1010@...
Subject: [fcb1010] Re: FCB1010 USB Conversion

 

Thanks. I'll keep you informed on progress.


Bruce Collins
 

Same here - one cable would b awesome

Sent from my cell phone 

On Dec 28, 2016, at 10:13 AM, Eric Dick dick.eric@... [fcb1010] <fcb1010@...> wrote:

 

Id buy it,  but I'm in Niagara Falls, Canada. 

I'm desperate for a good one cable solution. 

--
eric

On Dec 27, 2016, at 6:38 AM, mweetman@... [fcb1010] <fcb1010@...> wrote:

 

OK, I'll come clean. I have 2 prototypes working using Arduino Pro Micros & a step up convertor.

The biggest issue was getting the supply clean enough for the Expression pedals. The FCB1010 consumes around 200mA, so USB powering isn't an issue.
Another problem was the size of the System Exclusive messages, which are larger than the RAM of the Arduino!
Anyway, I have solved these issues, & it works just the same as with MIDI, but with just USB connected (NO mains). My units are all Uno conversions, but it should work with a factory unit as it simply converts USB MIDI to conventional MIDI to the existing FCB circuitry.

I would like to ask if anyone would help me with testing?

The conversion is quite simple, & can easily be reversed. A hole needs to be cut in the FCB for the USB socket.
I'm based in the UK, so would like someone local to try it out.
Anyone interested?????
I'll convert your FCB & ship it back to you free of charge. If you don't like it, it can be switched back.
After more testing, I may make the conversion commercially available.


mweetman@...
 

Thanks for all the comments.
I'm in a professional Rock band, & we resume touring in mid Jan. I'm going to use it live to reduce the cabling - which is why I designed it in the first place (we don't have roadies!).
Once it's been on the road for a few weeks, I'll know it's solid enough to distribute.

Right now, you need to:-
1. Optionally cut a 15mm hole in the FCB to mount a USB type B socket. You could more simply have a flying USB lead from the USB if you don't want to add the hole.
2. Replace the 7805 power regulator with a more efficient version. This is needed for long USB cables.
3. Add the new circuit via velcro strips
4. Solder a single wire to the FCB
5. Remove the MIDI connector & replace it with another from my circuit.

I have been trying to simplify the conversion, but right now the above is the most reliable (even with long cables).
I'll continue testing.

If anyone feels comfortable to do the above, I can mail a kit out with more detailed instructions & a video.

Martin


Steven Hirsch
 

Hi, Martin.  Sorry if this is an obvious question, but in addition to power over USB does your mod change the signaling to USB as well?  I need 5-pin serial MIDI signaling and would like a one-cable solution that supports it.  The Uno-Chip website mentions a kit for this, but there is no pricing and it does not seem to be currently available.  I'll roll my own if it comes to that, but starting with a kit is more attractive.


Ian Ockwell-smith
 

Hi, so is the USB thing purely to run midi and power along one cable and not for programming? Just wondered as I have done my own "one lead" conversion using a locking Ethernet cable meaning I can run amp switching, midi and power together.
Any further info would be greatly received.

Ian


On 29 Dec 2016, at 14:57, mweetman@... [fcb1010] <fcb1010@...> wrote:

 

Thanks for all the comments.
I'm in a professional Rock band, & we resume touring in mid Jan. I'm going to use it live to reduce the cabling - which is why I designed it in the first place (we don't have roadies!).
Once it's been on the road for a few weeks, I'll know it's solid enough to distribute.

Right now, you need to:-
1. Optionally cut a 15mm hole in the FCB to mount a USB type B socket. You could more simply have a flying USB lead from the USB if you don't want to add the hole.
2. Replace the 7805 power regulator with a more efficient version. This is needed for long USB cables.
3. Add the new circuit via velcro strips
4. Solder a single wire to the FCB
5. Remove the MIDI connector & replace it with another from my circuit.

I have been trying to simplify the conversion, but right now the above is the most reliable (even with long cables).
I'll continue testing.

If anyone fee ls comfortable to do the above, I can mail a kit out with more detailed instructions & a video.

Martin


Martin Weetman
 

Hi
The USB connection can be used for programming via Riperx & others.
The conversion is simply a bridge between USB MIDI & DIN MIDI. The FCB is also powered by USB meaning only one cable is needed.
Martin


Steven Hirsch
 

Still not quite getting it.  If there is only a single USB cable coming back from the FCB1010, does your conversion provide a DIN MIDI connector for the rack end?  Or, are you seeing the bridge is internal to the FCB and that I would need to provide my own conversion back to DIN MIDI?


FishOOW
 

I think this conversion is meant for someone wanting to attach directly to a laptop for instance. Many(most) midi controllers connect through USB now. 5-pin DIN is useful for many scenarios including daisy-chained devices. The USB devices use a computer (or iConnect or something) as a hub.


Martin Weetman
 

Yes, exactly.....
However, a DIN MIDI OUT can be easily added as it is on the FCB, where you would have a USB powered FCB with a USB MIDI interface, but also have the same FCB DIN MIDI OUT functionality.
Not sure of the vale of this though?
I'll post some pictures to show the device in operation. This might help.
Thanks for all the inputs.


Elisedd Bradan
 

Hi,

this can be easily build by every one with some electronic background. The important part is - as Martin already mentioned the power supply and the step-up converter. I'd used a Pololu 5V Step-Up voltage regulator (U3V12F5). The important point is, to use a converter that is beefy enough and a USB hub that can power it. Unfortunately the FCB1010 have pretty high current peaks - especially if you are working with sysex data to program it - so 300mA is sometimes not enaugh. This - in the end - also make the step-up converter necessary. 

My first try was to simply cut the pin from the 7805 on the FCB1010 PCB and power it directly with the USB voltage. This worked well as long as the powering hub was near by. It did'd work well over a long cable because of high current peaks that causes to heavy voltage drops in the cable (5m) so that the voltage comes to unstable for a secure operation of the FCB.    

I was a long time wondering why people start to handle with the main power, start removing the transformer, putting it in there rack - sometimes with bad isolated cables. This is dangerous if you not exactly know what you do. So the USB powering is definite the better way because you can do all of that without handling with 220V. How ever - you can even use a 9-12V DC wallward to power it if you supply it over the (of cause catted) yellow cables (before the rectifier). So there is no need to use the original transformer at all.

First I thought using USB  gives me a lot of other possibilities - e.g. using the MIDI I/O's of the FCB1010 in parallel with the USB part (that needs of cause a USB to MIDI converter with more ports). My first testings went indeed also in the direction to use the USB for MIDI transmission. 

How ever - in the end I decided not to use USB for MIDI but only for power supply -  for two simple reason: 

a) USB became unstable with cables over 5m

b) there is no professional USB plug system available - even the Neutrik comes with an unsaved connector only. So this makes it very likely that you accidentally unplug the cable on stage.

c) If you build your own plug system then it is not compatible anymore

In the end I changed the Neutrik USB connector against a 6 PIN XLR connector and put some relays inside that switch the MIDI and internal PS back to normal operation if the unit have power over the main supply. This is a rock solid solution and I'm very happy with it. I've got still the USB hub for powering in the rack because I need it anyway for my MIDI to USB converter that is in the Rack now. But I can still simply use it as designed if I turn back to 220V operation. 

So to make the long story short: 

My opinion: 
- USB for powering - fine. 
- USB connector for the FCB and USB Data transmission to the FCB - not good - at last not for life use.
- If you can, build in a switch or relays to allow operation also in the original manner.

cu
Ellis



Ian Ockwell-smith
 

Thanks for the explanation Ellis. I did the "put the FCB power supply in a box in the back of the rack case" system simply cause it was what I had to play with at the time. I would like to add to something that you hit on for anyone reading these posts. ALWAYS MAKE SURE THAT MAINS POWER CABLE/WIRES ARE INSULATED SAFELY. Sometimes it can be easy to forget that if you're keen on experimenting, then at some stage you're gonna need to put your hands in the mess of cables that you always have and it's nice to get your hand back without a shock! Cheers. Ian


On 28 Jan 2017, at 18:18, elisedd.bradan@... [fcb1010] <fcb1010@...> wrote:

 

Hi,


this can be easily build by every one with some electronic background. The important part is - as Martin already mentioned the power supply and the step-up converter. I'd used a Pololu 5V Step-Up voltage regulator (U3V12F5). The important point is, to use a converter that is beefy enough and a USB hub that can power it. Unfortunately the FCB1010 have pretty high current peaks - especially if you are working with sysex data to program it - so 300mA is sometimes not enaugh. This - in the end - also make the step-up converter necessary. 

My first try was to simply cut the pin from the 7805 on the FCB1010 PCB and power it directly with the USB voltage. This worked well as long as the powering hub was near by. It did'd work well over a long cable because of high current peaks that causes to heavy voltage drops in the cable (5m) so that the voltage comes to unstable for a secure operation of the FCB.     ;

I was a long time wondering why people start to handle with the main power, start removing the transformer, putting it in there rack - sometimes with bad isolated cables. This is dangerous if you not exactly know what you do. So the USB powering is definite the better way because you can do all of that without handling with 220V. How ever - you can even use a 9-12V DC wallward to power it if you supply it over the (of cause catted) yellow cables (before the rectifier). So there is no need to use the original transformer at all.

First I thought using USB  gives me a lot of other possibilities - e.g. using the MIDI I/O's of the FCB1010 in parallel with the USB part (that needs of cause a USB to MIDI converter with more ports). My first testings went indeed also in the direction to use the USB for MIDI transmission. 

How ever - in the end I decided not to use USB for MIDI but only for pow er supply -  for two simple reason: 

a) USB became unstable with cables over 5m

b) there is no professional USB plug system available - even the Neutrik comes with an unsaved connector only. So this makes it very likely that you accidentally unplug the cable on stage.

c) If you build your own plug system then it is not compatible anymore

In the end I changed the Neutrik USB connector against a 6 PIN XLR connector and put some relays inside that switch the MIDI and internal PS back to normal operation if the unit have power over the main supply. This is a rock solid solution and I'm very happy with it. I've got still the USB hub for powering in the rack because I need it anyway for my MIDI to USB converter that is in the Rack now. But I can still simply use it as designed if I turn ba ck to 220V operation. 

So to make the long story short: 

My opinion: 
- USB for powering - fine. 
- USB connector for the FCB and USB Data transmission to the FCB - not good - at last not for life use.
- If you can, build in a switch or relays to allow operation also in the original manner.

cu
Ellis