Topics

FCB1010 + TSE X50 + Reaper + LoopMIDI?


Tim Brown
 

Hi everyone,
I'm having a heck of a time with my 1010.  I have the free version of the TSE X50 (VST amp head) and I'm trying to get my FCB (no UnO) to change the channel switch (clean to dirty) on the head.  I use Reaper and it sees the FCB just fine and is receiving MIDI just fine.  But when I go to MIDI learn the parameter in Reaper it captures a PC command instead of CC and so it won't actually switch the channel.  I have an older free FCB editor and it says I can setup 2 CC's, but I'm not sure how to actually get the floorboard to send that message.  Plus, I have other FX VST's that I'd like to switch on and off stompbox style as well.
I asked on one of the Reaper Facebook groups and someone recommended that I use LoopMIDI to change all the PC's to CC's, but I can't figure out how to do that.  Has anyone else used LoopMIDI (or something else?) to do this?  I can't find any useful tutorials that talk about it.

Thanks for any help,
Tim B.


EJ SHELDON
 

When you say Old Editor I assume you mean the venerable Ed Dixon Editor as in the attached screenshot.
Your LEARN function is seeing a Program Change because Program Change is ON and sends BEFORE the CC.
Pictured is Button 1 set with Program Change Off, CC#111 set to Toggle. When Button 1 is first pressed it sends CC#111 with a Value of 0, which is usually OFF.
The next time you press the Button it sends the same CC#111 with a Value of 127, which is usually ON.
If your VST uses 0 ON 127 OFF (Amplitube is like that), or you want the default (first press) to be ON, just reverse the values.


Tim Brown
 

Yup, that's the one.
So, I think I may have a fundamental misunderstanding of how the CC's work. Can I only set the two of them once per preset or can I set them per pedal? Like have pedal 1 send CC1 values 0 and 127, then pedal 2 send CC2 values 0 and 127, and so on as needed.
I thought I tried it the way you suggested, but now I'm thinking I may have also left the PC 1 box checked, as well. So that wouldn't have worked anyway, right?
(Why do I always get helpful answers to problems while I'm at work and my gear is at home? LOL)
I'll give it another look when I get home. Thanks for the tips!

On Tue, Jun 30, 2020, 6:11 PM EJ SHELDON <bluesrock13@...> wrote:
When you say Old Editor I assume you mean the venerable Ed Dixon Editor as in the attached screenshot.
Your LEARN function is seeing a Program Change because Program Change is ON and sends BEFORE the CC.
Pictured is Button 1 set with Program Change Off, CC#111 set to Toggle. When Button 1 is first pressed it sends CC#111 with a Value of 0, which is usually OFF.
The next time you press the Button it sends the same CC#111 with a Value of 127, which is usually ON.
If your VST uses 0 ON 127 OFF (Amplitube is like that), or you want the default (first press) to be ON, just reverse the values.


EJ SHELDON
 
Edited

Yeah, with the stock chip you only get the one toggling CC per preset. To do what you want requires the UNO Chip.

When you use a LEARN function, it records the first message received. The FCB send order is PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,CC1,CC2,PC5, NOTE.

You can set as many pedals as you like to send CCs (any values in any Bank). For instance, set pedals 1-5 as CC, pedals 6-10 as Preset (Program Change).
However, you'd have to set up each Bank that way, and you'd be limited (in that scenario) to 50 Presets (10 Banks x 5).

The UNO chip keeps the CC pedals the same and simply changes the Preset values per Bank. That gives you access to 19 Banks of 5 Presets (95 Presets), with your five Stomps on each Bank (Stomp CCs are always to same, you can't use different values in each Bank).

Compromises either way.

If you're into programming, the UNO2 Chip allows you to set up the FCB pretty much any way you want. It's pretty simple BASIC style code, but it is programming.


Tim Brown
 

So is there any merit to what they told me to try with LoopMIDIor something similar?  Can I send whatever MIDI the FCB sends by default thru another program before it gets to Reaper and have it come out the other end as CC that the VSTs will understand?  Or am I stuck having to buy the UnO chip?


On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 7:14 PM EJ SHELDON <bluesrock13@...> wrote:
Yeah, with the stock chip you only get the one toggling CC per preset. To do what you want requires the UNO Chip.
When you use a LEARN function, it records the first message received. The FCB send order is PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,CC1,CC2,PC5, NOTE.


Tim Brown
 

I don't think at this point, I'll come close to 50 presets, so that's probably not an issue for me.  But just to be clear, what is the difference between "bank" and "preset"?  I feel like I may be using the wrong word.
If I'm reading your last post correctly, I can setup pedals 1-5 (which is about all I'd need for what I'm trying to do) as CC's only.  Each pedal would send a different CC# to switch things on and off in the VST's via MIDI Learn in the DAW.  And I could save that setup as one....preset or bank?

On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 7:26 PM EJ SHELDON <bluesrock13@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Yeah, with the stock chip you only get the one toggling CC per preset. To do what you want requires the UNO Chip.

When you use a LEARN function, it records the first message received. The FCB send order is PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,CC1,CC2,PC5, NOTE.

You can set as many pedals as you like to send CCs (any values in any Bank). For instance, set pedals 1-5 as CC, pedals 6-10 as Preset (Program Change).
However, you'd have to set up each Bank that way, and you'd be limited (in that scenario) to 50 Presets (10 Banks x 5).

The UNO chip keeps the CC pedals the same and simply changes the Preset values per Bank. That gives you access to 19 Banks of 5 Presets (95 Presets), with your five Stomps on each Bank (Stomp CCs are always to same, you can't use different values in each Bank).

Compromises either way.

If you're into programming, the UNO2 Chip allows you to set up the FCB pretty much any way you want. It's pretty simple BASIC style code, but it is programming.


EJ SHELDON
 

The stock FCB has 10 Banks, numbered 00-09. Each Bank has 10 Presets. By default these presets (000-127) are set up 10 per Bank.
A preset can send up to 8 MIDI messages. Each message can be assigned to a different MIDI Channel, BUT those channels are GLOBALLY assigned. So, for instance, if PC1 is assigned to MIDI Channel 1, PC1 will always send on MIDI Channel 1, in ALL presets, in ALL Banks. The exception is the Expression Pedals, which can be set to transmit on different channels in each preset.

Any number of pedals (out of the 10 available in each Bank) can be set up to send CC only. I only suggested 5 because that is what the UNO Chip does.
If all you need is 10 Presets, you could set up each Bank to call a Preset (or multiple presets at once in different VSTs), and have 9 buttons to use as Stomps.
You could, for instance, have 10 different amp presets (one in each of 10 Banks), with each bank having it's own custom Pedal Board with 9 effects.

As for LoopMIDI, I looked it up. It's not what you want. What that person was thinking of is MIDI Translation SW. BOME is the premier example, but MIDIOX can do translation (PC only) and there's probably other translation utilities for MAC.

With your extensive knowledge of MIDI, I wouldn't think about it, as it's not at all necessary for what you want to do.
Of course, you COULD take the time to learn a whole bunch of MIDI stuff, but wouldn't you rather play guitar?

Tell you what. Somewhere in the Cloud I have a sample FCB sysex that I made up for somebody else in your situation. After dinner I'll see if I can find it, and send it out to you to try. Sound good?


EJ SHELDON
 

Well, the Cloud ate the original, but using UNO_ControlCenter it only took a couple of minutes to re-create it.
I've also attached a screenshot of the configuration in UNO_ControlCenter. Worth the $20 vs the FREE ED Dixon editor.

This sysex mimics the basic UNO configuration. 50 Program Changes, five per Bank on the Top Row (6-10).
Five Toggling CCs on the Bottom Row (1-5), same CC#s in each Bank.
The one advantage to using the stock chip in this way is that you can use ANY CC#s in ANY Bank or Preset.

The CC#s I used are my preference.
They're "safe" in that they are unreserved, and won't conflict with MIDI devices that use reserved CCs.
You can use whatever CC#s you like, unless what you're controlling uses reserved CCs.
See the MIDI Spec for more info on reserved CCs.

Have Fun!


Earth.Sky.Surf5@...
 

Perhaps the answer is much simpler, assuming all you want to do is toggle a CC from say 127 to 0 and do not want to send a Program Change message, just turn off the Program Change message. From memory when you create a new assignment on the FCB1010 (original Behringer chip) Program Change (PROG CHG1) is on, so just hold that button "1" down for a couple of seconds to turn it off.

If my assumption was wrong, then trick Reaper, if you have another midi keyboard, assigned the continuous controller to the same CC id used on your foot controller, wiggle the CC on the keyboard so Reaper can learn it, the swap the midi cables back to the foot controller -- done.


Tim Brown
 

I'd appreciate that.  I'll definitely give it a look.  Thanks for taking the time to try to help me out.  I think I'm getting myself confused on terminology.  I have a suspicion when I get home and pull my gear out, I'll find that (1.)  PC change was still clicked in the editor and (2.) I should have been using "preset" when I meant pedal and "bank" when I meant preset.  But at any rate, I appreciate your help.


On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 9:49 PM EJ SHELDON <bluesrock13@...> wrote:
The stock FCB has 10 Banks, numbered 00-09. Each Bank has 10 Presets. By default these presets (000-127) are set up 10 per Bank.
A preset can send up to 8 MIDI messages. Each message can be assigned to a different MIDI Channel, BUT those channels are GLOBALLY assigned. So, for instance, if PC1 is assigned to MIDI Channel 1, PC1 will always send on MIDI Channel 1, in ALL presets, in ALL Banks. The exception is the Expression Pedals, which can be set to transmit on different channels in each preset.

Any number of pedals (out of the 10 available in each Bank) can be set up to send CC only. I only suggested 5 because that is what the UNO Chip does.
If all you need is 10 Presets, you could set up each Bank to call a Preset (or multiple presets at once in different VSTs), and have 9 buttons to use as Stomps.
You could, for instance, have 10 different amp presets (one in each of 10 Banks), with each bank having it's own custom Pedal Board with 9 effects.

As for LoopMIDI, I looked it up. It's not what you want. What that person was thinking of is MIDI Translation SW. BOME is the premier example, but MIDIOX can do translation (PC only) and there's probably other translation utilities for MAC.

With your extensive knowledge of MIDI, I wouldn't think about it, as it's not at all necessary for what you want to do.
Of course, you COULD take the time to learn a whole bunch of MIDI stuff, but wouldn't you rather play guitar?

Tell you what. Somewhere in the Cloud I have a sample FCB sysex that I made up for somebody else in your situation. After dinner I'll see if I can find it, and send it out to you to try. Sound good?


Tim Brown
 

Well, I want to says thanks again for all the help.  I think I finally have it working the way I want.
Turns out I was fighting several problems without realizing it. (All of them were stupid, FYI!) First, I did still have the PC switch on, so the CC wasn't being seen in Reaper. Stupid user!
Second, I have learned my MIDI cables are too old and have started to flake out. Sometimes they transmit, sometimes not. So that was causing me grief getting the sysex file from my laptop to the FCB as well as getting consistent behavior when switching things on and off. And finally, after I did get the parameter mapped, I learned that I had to clear the envelope in Reaper, otherwise it still wouldn't take the input from the FCB in realtime.
Sheesh!!
But it's doing what I intended in the first place finally so thank you for putting up with me!

On Wed, Jul 1, 2020, 4:22 AM <Earth.Sky.Surf5@...> wrote:
Perhaps the answer is much simpler, assuming all you want to do is toggle a CC from say 127 to 0 and do not want to send a Program Change message, just turn off the Program Change message. From memory when you create a new assignment on the FCB1010 (original Behringer chip) Program Change (PROG CHG1) is on, so just hold that button "1" down for a couple of seconds to turn it off.

If my assumption was wrong, then trick Reaper, if you have another midi keyboard, assigned the continuous controller to the same CC id used on your foot controller, wiggle the CC on the keyboard so Reaper can learn it, the swap the midi cables back to the foot controller -- done.