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Simultaneous foot presses


Dale Newton
 

Hi,

Are there any FCB1010 firmwares or mods which allow simultaneous foot presses?
 
I have the standard chip and this is not possible, as when you press two switches at once the first press is registered but the second not. So  for example if you want to use it to send midi to switch instrument, or  press sustain on a piano synth, and apply an effect, these cant be applied at the exact same time, rather you have to press the first switch then release then press the second.

Anyone know if this is a hardware limitation (eg. button matrix which doesn't allow keyboard type n-key rollover)?

Thanks,
Dale.


Ashley J Gittins
 

From memory the switches are in a matrix with diodes, so the key matrix itself should support simultaneous presses, but I don't know about the cpu. I suspect the hardware's quite capable, but the software is probably ignoring it.

If uno supports it in stompbox mode (I would expect it does but I've no idea) that would confirm that the hardware can handle it. I only have the behringer firmware so can't help much there.

I'm planning to replace the mainboard in my recently acquired fcb1010 with an arduino or similar which will happily handle simultaneous presses, but that might be more modding than you're looking for!

You can of course program multiple actions on a single pedal hit, but that might not do what you need.

Cheers,

Ash

On 2020-08-08 20:47, Dale Newton wrote:

Hi,
 
Are there any FCB1010 firmwares or mods which allow simultaneous foot presses?
 
I have the standard chip and this is not possible, as when you press two switches at once the first press is registered but the second not. So  for example if you want to use it to send midi to switch instrument, or  press sustain on a piano synth, and apply an effect, these cant be applied at the exact same time, rather you have to press the first switch then release then press the second.
 
Anyone know if this is a hardware limitation (eg. button matrix which doesn't allow keyboard type n-key rollover)?
 
Thanks,
Dale.


Jack Fenton
 

Eureka Prom has a mode called "IO"  that you can do this. However it is very dumb so you would have to have something on the back end of your FCB1010 to evaluate the multiple or simultaneos footswitch presses, interpret them and then put out whatever messages you want.  I'm not sure but may UNO2.0 might be able to handle something like this.



Earth.Sky.Surf5@...
 

OEM programmed chip only does monophonic, but Ashley J Gittins, when you replace the internals of the Behringer with an Arduino, would be great for you to post an article on it.


Dale Newton
 

OK thanks hopefully someone with different firmware will be able to confirm.
 
Yes, if I have to I would probably put an Arduino in there and learn how to program it. I guess when you do with yours you'll have to figure out what kind of signal is being fed to the FCB board from the matrix, then hook the matrix up to inputs on the arduino and program it to react accordingly. Is that what that would involve more or less?



 

On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 4:19 PM Ashley J Gittins <ash@...> wrote:

From memory the switches are in a matrix with diodes, so the key matrix itself should support simultaneous presses, but I don't know about the cpu. I suspect the hardware's quite capable, but the software is probably ignoring it.

If uno supports it in stompbox mode (I would expect it does but I've no idea) that would confirm that the hardware can handle it. I only have the behringer firmware so can't help much there.

I'm planning to replace the mainboard in my recently acquired fcb1010 with an arduino or similar which will happily handle simultaneous presses, but that might be more modding than you're looking for!

You can of course program multiple actions on a single pedal hit, but that might not do what you need.

Cheers,

Ash

On 2020-08-08 20:47, Dale Newton wrote:

Hi,
 
Are there any FCB1010 firmwares or mods which allow simultaneous foot presses?
 
I have the standard chip and this is not possible, as when you press two switches at once the first press is registered but the second not. So  for example if you want to use it to send midi to switch instrument, or  press sustain on a piano synth, and apply an effect, these cant be applied at the exact same time, rather you have to press the first switch then release then press the second.
 
Anyone know if this is a hardware limitation (eg. button matrix which doesn't allow keyboard type n-key rollover)?
 
Thanks,
Dale.


Dale Newton
 

Jack what do mean by the on the back end of the FCB?  Another microprocessor receiving the output from the Eureka Prom, or software translating the midi output from the Eureka Prom when it receives multiple presses?

On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 6:00 PM Dale Newton <d.e.a.newton@...> wrote:
OK thanks hopefully someone with different firmware will be able to confirm.
 
Yes, if I have to I would probably put an Arduino in there and learn how to program it. I guess when you do with yours you'll have to figure out what kind of signal is being fed to the FCB board from the matrix, then hook the matrix up to inputs on the arduino and program it to react accordingly. Is that what that would involve more or less?



 
On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 4:19 PM Ashley J Gittins <ash@...> wrote:

From memory the switches are in a matrix with diodes, so the key matrix itself should support simultaneous presses, but I don't know about the cpu. I suspect the hardware's quite capable, but the software is probably ignoring it.

If uno supports it in stompbox mode (I would expect it does but I've no idea) that would confirm that the hardware can handle it. I only have the behringer firmware so can't help much there.

I'm planning to replace the mainboard in my recently acquired fcb1010 with an arduino or similar which will happily handle simultaneous presses, but that might be more modding than you're looking for!

You can of course program multiple actions on a single pedal hit, but that might not do what you need.

Cheers,

Ash

On 2020-08-08 20:47, Dale Newton wrote:

Hi,
 
Are there any FCB1010 firmwares or mods which allow simultaneous foot presses?
 
I have the standard chip and this is not possible, as when you press two switches at once the first press is registered but the second not. So  for example if you want to use it to send midi to switch instrument, or  press sustain on a piano synth, and apply an effect, these cant be applied at the exact same time, rather you have to press the first switch then release then press the second.
 
Anyone know if this is a hardware limitation (eg. button matrix which doesn't allow keyboard type n-key rollover)?
 
Thanks,
Dale.


Jack Fenton
 

The EurekaSound web site shows what the FCB1010 sends in IO mode.

For me, I run this all through Bome MIDI Translator Pro to manipulate to what I like.  I can also upload my project file and use it with BomeBox if If don't want a computer involved.


But it looks like the UNO2 chip could likely handle this as well if it has enough memory and depending on the complexity of what you want to do.





toko42
 

The UnO2 can interpret the press of 2 switches at once?

How do you program this?

Am 9. August 2020 04:58:06 MESZ schrieb "David Grosz via groups.io" <davidgrosz2205@...>:

Well you need to get the UnO2 chip which easily can do what you want





On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 12:00 PM, Dale Newton
<d.e.a.newton@...> wrote:
Jack what do mean by the on the back end of the FCB?  Another microprocessor receiving the output from the Eureka Prom, or software translating the midi output from the Eureka Prom when it receives multiple presses?

On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 6:00 PM Dale Newton <d.e.a.newton@...> wrote:
OK thanks hopefully someone with different firmware will be able to confirm.
 
Yes, if I have to I would probably put an Arduino in there and learn how to program it. I guess when you do with yours you'll have to figure out what kind of signal is being fed to the FCB board from the matrix, then hook the matrix up to inputs on the arduino and program it to react accordingly. Is that what that would involve more or less?



 
On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 4:19 PM Ashley J Gittins <ash@...> wrote:

From memory the switches are in a matrix with diodes, so the key matrix itself should support simultaneous presses, but I don't know about the cpu. I suspect the hardware's quite capable, but the software is probably ignoring it.

If uno supports it in stompbox mode (I would expect it does but I've no idea) that would confirm that the hardware can handle it. I only have the behringer firmware so can't help much there.

I'm planning to replace the mainboard in my recently acquired fcb1010 with an arduino or similar which will happily handle simultaneous presses, but that might be more modding than you're looking for!

You can of course program multiple actions on a single pedal hit, but that might not do what you need.

Cheers,

Ash

On 2020-08-08 20:47, Dale Newton wrote:

Hi,
 
Are there any FCB1010 firmwares or mods which allow simultaneous foot presses?
 
I have the standard chip and this is not possible, as when you press two switches at once the first press is registered but the second not. So  for example if you want to use it to send midi to switch instrument, or  press sustain on a piano synth, and apply an effect, these cant be applied at the exact same time, rather you have to press the first switch then release then press the second.
 
Anyone know if this is a hardware limitation (eg. button matrix which doesn't allow keyboard type n-key rollover)?
 
Thanks,
Dale.


--
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Earth.Sky.Surf5@...
 

Why two buttons at once, so you can use it as a polyphonic organ bass pedal board. Just one example.


ossandust
 

I just tested it in order to be 100% sure : yes, UnO2 firmware handles multiple button presses correctly - each button press and release is processed independently. 


Dale Newton
 

Thanks Ossandust.  So, if one button is pressed down then another is pressed down while it's still depressed, both will send midi, then both releases will also send midi?

The potential usefulness of two simultaneous midi signals in music composition and performance are practically unlimited (eg. Earth.Sky.Surf5's suggestion of an organist's pedal; pedals for a pianist, patch changes and effects). 

For the sake of the quality and brevity of information in this thread, anyone who wishes to insist this functionality has no usefulness (rather than ask about it), or insist on how I plan to use or not use the device (rather than ask about it!), if you must send messages of this kind please send them to me in a private message.


David Grosz
 

I think this has been a great thread with some great information along the way and thank you for asking the question we all I think learned something along the way and not everyone uses it in the same way or to do the same things but its awesome to take a product and turn it into something so else hardly comparably to the original

On Sunday, August 9, 2020, 1:50:46 PM PDT, Dale Newton <d.e.a.newton@...> wrote:


Thanks Ossandust.  So, if one button is pressed down then another is pressed down while it's still depressed, both will send midi, then both releases will also send midi?

The potential usefulness of two simultaneous midi signals in music composition and performance are practically unlimited (eg. Earth.Sky.Surf5's suggestion of an organist's pedal; pedals for a pianist, patch changes and effects). 

For the sake of the quality and brevity of information in this thread, anyone who wishes to insist this functionality has no usefulness (rather than ask about it), or insist on how I plan to use or not use the device (rather than ask about it!), if you must send messages of this kind please send them to me in a private message.


ossandust
 

On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 08:50 PM, Dale Newton wrote:
if one button is pressed down then another is pressed down while it's still depressed, both will send midi, then both releases will also send midi
Correct.


Dale Newton
 

Cool thanks.

On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 7:46 AM ossandust <ossan.dust@...> wrote:
On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 08:50 PM, Dale Newton wrote:
if one button is pressed down then another is pressed down while it's still depressed, both will send midi, then both releases will also send midi
Correct.