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Upgrade Questions

llatham@...
 

Here's what I'd like:

Bank 0, ability to assign CC messages to each of the 10 pedals.

Bank 1, ability to have bottom row of 5 send PC messages, and top row of 5 send the following:

FS6 - CCXX, 127/0 - to toggle on and off an effect.

FS7 - CCXY on 1st press, CCXZ on 2nd press, both with a value of 127 (this is how it works stock in "toggle" mode, but the LEDs of course can't be lit with FS 1-5 lit).

FS8 and 9 would be a similar layout - 1 FX on/off, the 2nd toggle between two FX on.

FS10 - CC64 - one press 127 and that's it - I'd need to press it twice but it could be momentary instead of latch. If not, at leas the ability to send CC64 127 on the first press and CC64 on the 2nd press and have the LED go on then off in those two presses (it's for Tap Tempo on a device that uses CC64 and two presses (127 each time) in a row to give the tempo).

Bank 2 - All 10 FS send PC messages.

Bank 3 - All 10 FS send CC messages (for FX on/off, lights toggle as well)

Bank 4, some other combination of PC select on all 10 or subset thereof, or CC on all 10 or some subset thereof etc.

And so on.

From what I'm reading the Eureka upgrade just makes ONLY ONE bank a Stombox Mode, and then the other Banks do other things that are preset and I can't reprogram - is that true?

BTW, have a Mac, so programming would have to be done on the FCB itself I think.

EJ SHELDON
 

From what I've read on their site, there's a user mode that can be fully programmed. Whether it will allow you to do all you've asked, I have no clue. I THINK it requires that it be programmed manually on the FCB (no editor). That would be a deal killer for me, especially given your needs. Best thing to do would be to ask them.

As for your wish list, everything BUT the synced LEDs can be done with the stock chip, easily, using the UNO_ControlCenter Editor.
Yes, it works with the stock chip. Yes, there's a MAC version. Yes, it's more than worth the $22 it costs.

Using the stock chip, you can probably use one of the free editors to do what you want. I've used them. That's why I recommend the UNO_ControlCenter.

EJ SHELDON
 

EDIT:

Using the stock chip, you can probably use one of the free editors to do what you want. EXCEPT the synced LEDs.

llatham@...
 

Thanks EJ - yes, actually I can do all of this Stock except the LEDs. I've been programming it on the FCB itself so it's not that bad.

I just looked at the UNO one and that looks promising, but there's no "all 10" mode with synced LEDs, but worst case, as long as I can program other Banks to do other things - which it looks like it can, I should be OK.

EJ SHELDON
 

Main thing to keep in mind with UNO is that every bank has the same 5 Stompboxes. The other 5 pedals can be programmed for PC, and /or CC, and/or NOTE..
Also, the 5 Stomps can each send 5 PCs on 5 Channels, toggle 2 CCs (I believe CC1 gets the synced LED) and send one NOTE. I haven't personally found this very useful, but if you have a complex MIDI rig with many devices, it could be. 
Another also - each of the 5 Preset buttons in each Bank, in addition to being able to send 5 PCs and a NOTE on separate channels, can also be configured to toggle 2 CCs on a second pedal press (Value 1 sent by default on Preset load, no LED sync. CC Channels are GLOBAL), and the Expression pedals can be set to use any CC on any Channel.
Again, most useful in complex MIDI rigs.

llatham@...
 
Edited

So you're saying if I press FS1, then FS6 is going to send - let's say CC15, then if I press FS2, FS6 is STILL going to send CC15 yes?

Let me see if any of this will help: I'm controlling a Line 6 M13.

It has 4 Banks of 12 "Scenes" (accessed by PC#s) and each Scene has 12 FX in it (CCXX 64-127 on, and CCXX 0-63 off).

Now the M13 has one awesome feature, but it plays havoc on stuff like this.

The 12 FX are in a 4x3 grid where there are 4 "Columns" (1-4) of 3 FX each (A-C). You can have only 1 effect on at a time in one Column.

But the cool thing about this is, let's say you have 1A on. You don't have to turn off 1A and then turn on 1B if you want to change from 1A to 1B. You simply press 1B and it will actually de-activate 1A!!!

This is really handy for FX you'd probably never use at the same time - so I might put Chorus in 2A and Flange in 2B. From bypass, I can pick either one and turn it on and off. Or, I can pick Chorus, then press Flange and it turns Flange on, but deactivates the Chorus.

This would drive the status LEDs crazy but what I'm thinking about is putting something like Reverb on 3A, and Delay on 3B and "toggle" between them.

To do this, I would put Delay on 1B and that needs CC12 127 to turn it on. So I'd assign that to FS6 on the first push, to turn the LED on and send the CC12 127 message.

Then I'd need to be able to push FS6 again and have it send CC11 127 to turn on Reverb which I'd put in slot 1A, which would then de-activate the Delay when it comes on.

That way I could effectively toggle between the two - but FS6 would need to be able to send TWO DIFFERENT CC values - CC11 and CC12 for example.

If it could do this it would be great because "off" would be Reverb - which I'd leave on all the time anyway, and then "On" would turn Delay on, and kill the Verb, then "Off" would actually turn the Verb on and kill the Delay.

So it sounds like from what you're saying FS6 could "toggle" and send two different CC#s - not just 0 and 127 (or 63 and 64, whatever) on the same CC# - but just that once this is set up, FS6 is always going to send those same commands in any preset.

That would actually be kind of useful - because I can change the effect type and order on the M13 side if I need to.

But just to be clear, I can set up Bank 1 with 5 Presets and 5 stomps, then Bank 2 with 5 DIFFERENT Presets (different PC#s) and 5 Stomps BUT those 5 Stomps will have to be the SAME setup they are in Bank 1 - and Bank 3-9, etc.

I think this would be OK - I would just have to use only the 5 Bank switches to send the CC (yes CC) messages for the Looper in say, Bank 0 (and I can make it so one Bank doesn't send PC messages on the bottom row, right?).

EJ SHELDON
 

UNO, in STOMP Mode allows you to assign your STOMP switches to either the top or bottom row (1-5 or 6-10).
Assume that you've assigned them to the bottom row (1-5).
You've assigned STOMP 1 CC1 to CC#11 Value1=0 Value2=127; CC2 is assigned to CC#12 Value1=127 Value2=0.
When you press STOMP 1 The LED comes ON because you've sent a Value of 0 (ON) on CC1 (CC#11). You've also sent a Value of 127 (OFF) on CC2 (CC#12).
The next time you press STOMP 1 the opposite happens.
Since you have four effects (1A/B;2A/B;3A/B;4A/B, you're good to go (as long as every scene uses only A and B effects) with a STOMP leftover (toggle FX Loop? TAP TEMPO?).

My question would be whether it was necessary to send BOTH CC#s or does the M13's internal logic know, when using MIDI, to turn OFF 1B when ON is received at 1A and vice versa? You'd likely have to test.

That takes care of the scenario you posed, but what of effect 1C? You've got a simple two way switch where you need a three way with complex logic.

My other question is - why would you want to use the FCB to control the M13's stomps?

I can see a use for the FCB if you want to leave the M13 in Stomp Mode and use the FCB to control scenes and the Looper, and utilize the expression pedals and amp switching feature (if you have a channel switching amp).

Here's a screenshot (UNO_ControlCenter) of what such a configuration might look like.
Looper is controlled with the STOMP pedals, only the most important functions plus TAP TEMPO. 


llatham@...
 
Edited

My question would be whether it was necessary to send BOTH CC#s or does the M13's internal logic know, when using MIDI, to turn OFF 1B when ON is received at 1A and vice versa? You'd likely have to test.

No, it's only necessary to send the "on" message for Pedal 1B - it will automatically turn off 1A and vice versa. So all that's need is like CC11 127, then CC12 127.

I only have to send 0 then 127 on the SAME CC# (to turn on and off a single pedal effect in slot 1A for example).
My other question is - why would you want to use the FCB to control the M13's stomps?

Because Line 6 unethically used really poor footswitches (the same ones that they know good and well are faulty they've been putting in the MM4, DL4, etc. series for decades now...) and the footswitches won't engage/disengage. They're all "iffy" and only work some of the time.

By sending MIDI messages, I bypass the M13s crappy footswitches (that now only work when they want to) and can still use this device (which is the only device in the price range I've found will do what I want).

The other aspect is though, I can actually get to all 48 Scenes of the M13 using an external controller - you have to do multiple steps to get this to happen - like I can have 1 button push on the FCB take me from a patch in Bank 1 (assuming I'm already there) to one in Bank 3.  It takes at least 3 steps to do that on the M13, one of which has do be done with your hand. While it might be more button pushes on the FCB to get through all the banks, it's a whole lot easier to "scroll" through the banks with your feet and then step on another FS than it is to do on the M13.

The screen shot looks good - but where you have the PC11 for example that's actually a CC# instead.
 -
PC 11 would take you to SCENE 12, which would be the last one in bank 1, that has 12 FX in it. Then each of those FX are turned on and off with CC#s

So would be like Scene "4C", but that would then have 1A-C, 2A-C, 3A-C, and 4A-C within it that one Scene - which are all individual locations various FX can be stored in which you'd turn on and off again with the CC#s.

EJ SHELDON
 
Edited

We all have our unique workflows, and configuring the Scene Changes on the FCB to conform to your specific needs makes total sense, especially if you have all of your scene banks/folders in use already.

The need to have 12 CCs available to control all the available effects can be worked around by overlapping FCB Banks, so it's not necessarily a killer problem.

I'm sure you have a plan that works for you. All of what follows is for my own edification. I'll probably never own an M13, as I have Helix, but people (here and elsewhere) are always asking how to use the FCB for all sorts of things, so I'm curious. I've attached a sysex that more or less conforms to how I'd set up to use an M13. It assumes that, in order to have what I would consider an elegant/intuitive configuration given the 10 button per bank limitations of the FCB, I'm only using two of the three available effects in each of the four effects units, and 32 of the available 48 scenes.

I'm hoping that, at your convenience, you might load up the attached sysex and test it out on your M13. 

EDIT: see subsequent post for attachments

Thanks in advance!

David Grosz
 

Upgrade to the UNO chip and get their editor.  By doing so you can assign any switch to do anything
including Stomp Mode based per switch and not rows.  The Eureka Prom is for people that want a
upgrade that has function predetermined for them.  UNO to me is far and above a must have upgrade

On Wednesday, December 11, 2019, 3:14:07 PM PST, llatham@... <llatham@...> wrote:


Here's what I'd like:

Bank 0, ability to assign CC messages to each of the 10 pedals.

Bank 1, ability to have bottom row of 5 send PC messages, and top row of 5 send the following:

FS6 - CCXX, 127/0 - to toggle on and off an effect.

FS7 - CCXY on 1st press, CCXZ on 2nd press, both with a value of 127 (this is how it works stock in "toggle" mode, but the LEDs of course can't be lit with FS 1-5 lit).

FS8 and 9 would be a similar layout - 1 FX on/off, the 2nd toggle between two FX on.

FS10 - CC64 - one press 127 and that's it - I'd need to press it twice but it could be momentary instead of latch. If not, at leas the ability to send CC64 127 on the first press and CC64 on the 2nd press and have the LED go on then off in those two presses (it's for Tap Tempo on a device that uses CC64 and two presses (127 each time) in a row to give the tempo).

Bank 2 - All 10 FS send PC messages.

Bank 3 - All 10 FS send CC messages (for FX on/off, lights toggle as well)

Bank 4, some other combination of PC select on all 10 or subset thereof, or CC on all 10 or some subset thereof etc.

And so on.

From what I'm reading the Eureka upgrade just makes ONLY ONE bank a Stombox Mode, and then the other Banks do other things that are preset and I can't reprogram - is that true?

BTW, have a Mac, so programming would have to be done on the FCB itself I think.

llatham@...
 

David, that sounds great, but kind of contrary to what I've read everywhere else and what it seems EJ is saying.

So you're saying there will be 10 Banks ot 10 switches, and in each of those 10 banks any switch can be assigned to send CC, PC, or operate in stombox mode, with each bank being a DIFFERENT layout?

IOW, can I make Bank 1 be all PC to select patches, and then Bank 2 ALL Stombox to turn FX on and off once I'm in a patch, and Bank 3 be lower row presets, upper row stomps, and Bank 4 be 9 Presets with 1 Stomp, and Bank 5 be 2 Presets with 8 stomps, and so on?

If so, this would be amazing.

llatham@...
 
Edited

I guess I'm not understanding how Stompbox mode is implemented.

Let's forget about Eureka and deal with Uno only.

In your new image, I'd want Bank 0 and Bank 1 to operate as stomboxes, where, for example in Bank 1, if I press FS 2 to Play, the LED comes on, and then when I press FS 2 again, the LED goes off and it Plays/Stops accordingly. I think we know the stock FCB will do this, just the LEDs won't work right (just stay lit all the time once the FS is pressed).

Same with Bank 1 - your value numbers don't all have 127 but what I'd want in a bank like that is for FS 1 to turn on FX 1A on the first press (LED on) and then the second press (LED off) to turn the effect off.

But your Bank 2  - it's not in "stombox mode" correct? Is this set independently per Bank? It's just sending 1 PC number - which is the way the FCB comes stock out of the box. In this case you DO want the LED to stay lit even on a 2nd push. So for example, FS 1 takes me to Scene 1 and FS 2 takes me to Scene 2. There I'd want the LED to be lit on FS1, and when I changed to FS2 have FS1 go off and FS2 come on - the standard way it operates out of the box.

So I guess I don't get how you'd tell it to do the LEDs as stombox mode in banks 0 and 1, but not in Bank 2.

And that leads me to ask this:


In your Bank 0, could two of the commands from Bank 2 be put into those empty slots (FS 5 and 10) so those two could select between two different Scenes on those FS NOT in stombox mode, but the remaining 8 still work in stombox mode with LEDs changing accordingly? Can you "intermix" FS  so that some of the 10 are in stombox mode and the remaining ones are not in the same Bank?

The way you have it set up now is kind of like how the M13 operates - So I could use it this way.

But the ability to have 5 presets and 5 stomps in Bank 3, then 5 different presets and the same 5 stomp commands (different FX could be on the M13) in Bank 4, then 2 Preset and 8 stomps, or 8 presets and 2 stomps, or whatever combinations I want in the other Banks would amazing!

EJ SHELDON
 

I don't know where you got the idea that UNO allows you to assign any switch to do anything.

With UNO you get Stompbox mode (including LED ON/OFF) In ALL banks. The Stomps can send CC/PC and NOTE, and the LEDs reflect the last sent message - Value 1 is LED ON, Value 2 is LED OFF. The LED is reflective of CC1, not CC2.

Stomps can be on the top or bottom row, but are on that row in EVERY bank, and the assignments are GLOBAL - same in EVERY FCB Bank.

Every bank has 5 STOMPBOXES and 5 Preset buttons.

The non-stompbox/preset row can be assigned to send up to 5 PCs, 2 CCs and one NOTE.
The buttons in the non-stompbox/preset row can be set to re-send the CCs on a second press without re-sending the assigned PCs, and be set to toggle, but BOTH CCs ALWAYS transmit on the first press along with the assigned PCs/NOTE, and always send BOTH CCs, even on subsequent presses.
If you select/press a different preset button, pressing the previous button again re-sends everything.

STOMPs in the STOMPBOX row also send both CCs on every press.

As for the Eurekaprom, I have never had one, but it's my understanding from reading on their site that while the chips are tailored to a specific device, they also have a programmable USER mode that is very flexible and provides REAL 2-way LED feedback. You can configure UNO to FAKE that, but it's very programming intensive and is NOT actually 2-way communication. Again, I've never had one, so if you're considering it you should contact support with specific questions.

Channel assignments for PC/CC/NOTE assignments are also GLOBAL - they always send on the same channel. If PC1 is assigned to channel 1 it sends on that channel in EVERY bank. Same for PCs1-5, CCs and NOTEs You can't have a PC or CC send on different channels in different banks. Same for all PCs,CCs and NOTEs.

Expression pedals CAN be assigned to send on different channels in different banks, but NOT PCs/CCs/NOTEs.

The STOCK chip can be assigned to have every button in every bank send your choice of PC/CC/NOTE, but all of the above rules for channels apply, and only 2 CCs can be assigned per button. You also don't get ON/OFF LED feedback.

The UNO_ControlCenter Editor can be used with UNO or Stock chips, and is the best editor out there, well worth the money.

FWIW - what I said above about UNO is based on using UNO for 10 years with every kind of HW and SW.

EJ SHELDON
 

David is wrong. Attached is the UNO manual. Read for yourself.

"In your new image, I'd want Bank 0 and Bank 1 to operate as stomboxes, where, for example in Bank 1, if I press FS 2 to Play, the LED comes on, and then when I press FS 2 again, the LED goes off and it Plays/Stops accordingly. I think we know the stock FCB will do this, just the LEDs won't work right (just stay lit all the time once the FS is pressed).

Same with Bank 1 - your value numbers don't all have 127 but what I'd want in a bank like that is for FS 1 to turn on FX 1A on the first press (LED on) and then the second press (LED off) to turn the effect off."

Sorry about the screenshot, I sent the wrong one. Attached the right one here.

The screenshot/sysex I sent is done on the STOCK FCB chip, because that's the chip you have. The LEDs will NOT reflect the status, per my reply to David. There's only one bank (bank 00) of Stompbox ON/OFF controls, as the CCs used are the same regardless of scene. Also keep in mind that, as mentioned in that reply, there is no 2-way communication with the M13. If an effect is ON in a scene, when you press the button assigned to that stomp, nothing will happen until you press it a second time, as the first press will send ON, and it's already ON. The LEDs DO NOT reflect the actual ON/OFF status of the M13, nor will they change to reflect the message sent. That is a limitation of the stock FCB chip, and with UNO only happens when you use STOMPBOX mode, which restricts you to 5 CCs, the same ones in every bank. Also, you only have 10 buttons to play with in each bank, and the M13 has 12 stompboxes, so the third effect in each of the four effects units is NOT employed. You can get around this by using two banks for Stomps, perhaps using only six buttons per bank? Up to you. As mentioned in my post, I created that sysex for my own edification, to see if I had the concepts correct, and as an example to you of how it MIGHT be done.

Bank 01 is for Looper control.

Banks 02 and 03 are for scene selection, and I only did two banks because, as mentioned, the sysex is only for proof of concept and example. You'd want to fill out the rest of the banks to get in all of the scenes.

"The way you have it set up now is kind of like how the M13 operates - So I could use it this way.

But the ability to have 5 presets and 5 stomps in Bank 3, then 5 different presets and the same 5 stomp commands (different FX could be on the M13) in Bank 4, then 2 Preset and 8 stomps, or 8 presets and 2 stomps, or whatever combinations I want in the other Banks would amazing!"

Again, as mentioned in my reply to David, with the Stock chip you can put whatever commands you want in any of the banks, but the LEDs will NEVER reflect the command status. Press the button, the LED turns on. Press another and the first one turns OFF, the second one turns ON.

Load up my sysex (attached again, right one I hope) and try it out. If it all works the way I THINK it will, then you can mix and match the commands any way you like in your own configuration. That sysex is only intended as proof of concept and example.

EJ SHELDON
 

OOPS! Forgot to attach the manual! Here it is.

llatham@...
 



I found a free editor and made this.

This is what I would like, but with the top row to have LEDs that go on and off along with the effects:



Because of the way the M13 behaves, 3, will turn on a light overdrive for me, then 4 will turn on a higher gain overdrive, but will also de-select 3 at the same time! Since the bottom row LEDs can only be 1 at a time (assuming SB mode on top row) this would actually work great!

Buttons 1 and 2 would move between two Scenes - and the way the memory works on the M13, 1 could always take me back to a Scene with everything set up as above, but in a certain state (say, just FX 1A on) and FS2 could take me to a Scene in a "start state" as well, but could operate the same way as Scene 1 (but could have totally different drives and FX in it - would just have to be in the same locations).

Then the  Top Row would be FX On/Off, but again, FS2 could take me to a different scene, where those could "reset" (all Off, which the manual says is one of the modes when changing presets).

Then Bank 2 could be Scenes 4A and 3C, and then set up the same - 3-5 select different drives, and 6-10 on/off for other FX.

So it sounds like the Uno will do this. In fact, with this and the stock chip, it does exactly all this just like I'd want - I only have to pay attention to the status of my FX controlled by the top row since they're in a toggle state but the LEDs don't show it.

But for the bottom row, 3-5 work perfectly as is, and 1 and 2 are fine - I can always press 1 to get to the Scene I want which might default to FX 1A, then press 3-5 to get to 1A, 1B, or 1C - I'd have to do that anyway on the M13 itself so it would work just like it does.


EJ SHELDON
 

It sounds like you're still confusing the stock FCB Stompbox Function (sending a CC with ON or OFF Value on first press using CNT1, then OFF or ON with second press using CNT2) with the UNO STOMPBOX MODE, which is TOTALLY different.

With the stock chip, in order to mimic a toggling (latching) footswitch, you need to set both CNT1 and CNT2 to the same CC#, and decide whether you want to send ON (Value 0) or OFF (Value 127) on the first press. If you want it to send ON, CNT1 Value should be 0, CNT2 Value 127. If you want OFF first, reverse that. The LED will stay on until you press a different button regardless. The upside is that you can assign any CC# to any button in any bank, allowing you to control all 12 M13 effects.

With UNO STOMPBOX MODE CC1 and CC2 (same as CNT1/CNT2, but UNO speak) each have two values, Value1 is sent on the first press and turns the LED ON, regardless of Values sent, second press sends Value2 and the LED turns OFF regardless of Values sent. Both CC1 and CC2 are sent on each press. CC2 (CNT2) does not need to be used. You can if you want, but it's not necessary for the STOMPBOX function. The downside is that those 5 STOMPBOXes and their settings appear on the upper or lower row in EVERY FCB bank. That restricts you to 5 (or 10 if you use both CC1 and CC2, which can be tricky, as the M13 assigns CC#s according to position in the Effects Unit) STOMPBOXes. Period. Unless you assign other buttons in that bank using the stock FCB method, which does NOT reflect the message status with the LED.

You can set UNO up to send Value 1 (LED ON) for each STOMPBOX at preset load so that, let's say the M13 preset/scene you're calling has Unit 1 effect 1 ON and controlled by STOMPBOX 1, you send Value 1 (0) at scene load. It won't change the status of the effect on the M13 because it's already ON, but the LED is lit and the next time you press it the M13 effect goes OFF, as does the LED. Next press effect and LED ON, next press effect and LED OFF. If you send OFF (127) with Value 1 using this method, the LED remains OFF, and the next press of that STOMPBOX button sends Value 2 ON and the LED turns ON. All 5 STOMPBOXES can do that. The settings are PER PRESET/SCENE, NOT GLOBAL.

IOW, you set them to match the effects in the SCENE. Or to CONTROL the effects in the scene. Suppose you have a scene with ALL EFFECTS OFF. If you set it up to send 1-0-1-0-1 (ON-OFF-ON-OFF-ON) then the effects controlled by the CC#s on all 5 STOMPBOXES will send Values ON-OFF-ON-OFF-ON.

NOTE: this only works as expected if Value 1 is 0 and Value 2 is 127

What this accomplishes is that you never have to change the SCENE assignment in the FCB once the the FCB presets are configured, you just change the messages sent on load, and the LEDs APPEAR to mirror the effects' status, the corresponding M13 Effects do what they're told, and it only takes one press to turn an effect ON or OFF.

CAVEAT: This UNO function works with most HW and SW. It works with Helix, Amplitube, S-Gear and TH3, but not with GuitarRig. Depends on how the device handles incoming MIDI messages. I expect it WILL work with the M13.

Using the stock chip for stompbox-like function, if the Scene is saved with certain effects ON, CNT1 Value 0 and CNT2 Value 127, the controlling stomp button has to be pressed TWICE to turn it OFF because the first Value sent will be ON. The next press (after turning it OFF) will turn it ON again, but the LED won't reflect that. Once you press the button the LED is ON until you press another button. And when you come back to that button it will once again send ON because unlike the STOMPBOX mode of UNO, the stock chip doesn't remember what it sent between button presses.

Personally, since you can only use 4 effects per scene, I'd use another feature of UNO on pedal 5, MOMENTARY STOMP to control TAP TEMPO. While it's possible to set up the stock chip to do TAP TEMPO, it's a PITA (see the FCB documentation to see what I mean) because the MOMENTARY function of the stock chip works differently than on UNO. With the stock chip TAP TEMPO is a separate configuration from momentary. With UNO, you simply change the function of a STOMPBOX from LATCHING to MOMENTARY. One click on the interface (GET THE UNO_CONTROLCENTER EDITOR!) does it. Then when you set the FCB Preset (M13 SCENE) to send the messages on load as above, you set them 1-0-1-0--. The DASH in the fifth column means NO CHANGE is sent. If you look at the screenshots I sent, on the far right of each Preset is an extra column with 5 dashes. This is where you set this up.

ANOTHER NOTE: The UNO_ControlCenter Editor does not magically imbue the stock chip with UNO functionality. You need the actual UNO chip for that, but the editor can be used with either chip.

Still confused? More confused?
The UNO per preset STOMPBOX send function is easier to demonstrate than to explain. But you need the UNO chip to demonstrate it.
Just remember that the STOMPBOX MODE of UNO is TOTALLY different than the stompbox function of the stock chip. If the UNO chip is configured using STOCK FCB1010 mode, it functions identically to the stock chip. You can go either way.

In the screenshot you sent, lines 3,4 and 5 will turn the assigned effects OFF, but won't turn them back ON. Lines 6.7,8 and 9 will toggle as expected.
If TAP TEMPO on the M13 works the same as on Helix, line 10 will do nothing. Try it. Maybe it will work, but I don't think so.

OK, I'm tired of typing now. Any questions? :-)

llatham@...
 
Edited

On Fri, Dec 13, 2019 at 08:11 PM, EJ SHELDON wrote:
 The downside is that those 5 STOMPBOXes and their settings appear on the upper or lower row in EVERY FCB bank. That restricts you to 5 (or 10 if you use both CC1 and CC2, which can be tricky, as the M13 assigns CC#s according to position in the Effects Unit) STOMPBOXes. Period. Unless you assign other buttons in that bank using the stock FCB method, which does NOT reflect the message status with the LED.

What I'm really trying to confirm from you that is if FS6 is CC11 in Bank 1 on the FCB, it sounds like you're saying it must also be CC11 in Bank 2 and Bank 3, etc. as well? Is that correct?

So the top row - whatever 6-10 is assigned to in Bank 0, will be the same for all other banks as well - FS7 once assigned to send CC44 or whatever is always going to send CC44 in any bank, yes?

Also, once you're in stombox mode in the top row, does the bottom row still have all of the functionality of the stock chip?

IOW, if I assign FS1 to PC 1 in Bank 1, can it be PC55 in bank 2 if I want? Also, if you assign FS1 to that PC message like that, could FS5 be just CC11 for example in Bank 1, then CC14 in Bank 2 if I wanted it to be?

To be clear - the image I sent you  - that's not hypothetical - that actually works perfectly - except for the LEDs - it works just like I want it.

If the UNO means the top row has to be CC14, CC15, CC16, CC17, and CC18 for ALL banks, that's actually OK because the M13 allows you to put any effect anywhere - so CC14 (FX2A) can be a chorus in one Scene, but could be a Flange in another Scene.

What I'm trying to make sure of is that even if the top row in every single bank has to be the same like that, that the bottom row can still be as programmable as the stock chip - so I can set FS1 to PC 1 and FS 2 to PC2, and then in Bank 2, make FS1 PC3 and FS 2 PC for example, and set 3-5 to CC messages like in my image.


David Grosz
 

Yes you can have any switch do anything, I will try and set up a program laid out as your asking about
but Uno chip is the only one that does that does I do not think Eureka prom will do that.  Enclosed is a pdf
of my template for my Axe-Fx and you will see stomp mode used at the bottom I believe Bank 09 but you
can program 5 PC# , 2 CC# with 1 value and or an alternate which is stomp mode, both expression pedals
and a note value for each button.  One button push can send 5 PC changes to 5 different midi devices but you
really need the editor to do it because trying to do it manually would be a nightmare

On Friday, December 13, 2019, 5:25:01 AM PST, <llatham@...> wrote:


David, that sounds great, but kind of contrary to what I've read everywhere else and what it seems EJ is saying.

So you're saying there will be 10 Banks ot 10 switches, and in each of those 10 banks any switch can be assigned to send CC, PC, or operate in stombox mode, with each bank being a DIFFERENT layout?

IOW, can I make Bank 1 be all PC to select patches, and then Bank 2 ALL Stombox to turn FX on and off once I'm in a patch, and Bank 3 be lower row presets, upper row stomps, and Bank 4 be 9 Presets with 1 Stomp, and Bank 5 be 2 Presets with 8 stomps, and so on?

If so, this would be amazing.

EJ SHELDON
 

"So the top row - whatever 6-10 is assigned to in Bank 0, will be the same for all other banks as well - FS7 once assigned to send CC44 or whatever is always going to send CC44 in any bank, yes?"
 
If using UNO in STOMPBOX MODE, YES. You can assign either the TOP or BOTTOM row to stompbox mode, whatever works for you.
 
"Also, once you're in stombox mode in the top row, does the bottom row still have all of the functionality of the stock chip?"
 
YES.
 
"IOW, if I assign FS1 to PC 1 in Bank 1, can it be PC55 in bank 2 if I want? Also, if you assign FS1 to that PC message like that, could FS5 be just CC11 for example in Bank 1, then CC14 in Bank 2 if I wanted it to be?"
 
YES.
 
"If the UNO means the top row has to be CC14, CC15, CC16, CC17, and CC18 for ALL banks, that's actually OK because the M13 allows you to put any effect anywhere - so CC14 (FX2A) can be a chorus in one Scene, but could be a Flange in another Scene.
 
What I'm trying to make sure of is that even if the top row in every single bank has to be the same like that, that the bottom row can still be as programmable as the stock chip - so I can set FS1 to PC 1 and FS 2 to PC2, and then in Bank 2, make FS1 PC3 and FS 2 PC for example, and set 3-5 to CC messages like in my image."
 
YES.
 
"To be clear - the image I sent you  - that's not hypothetical - that actually works perfectly - except for the LEDs - it works just like I want it."
 
CONGRATULATIONS! You've got it!
 
If you don't need the LEDs to give feedback as to the status of the pedal, and you don't need any of the advanced UNO functions I described, you don't NEED UNO!
 
ROCK ON!