Using BandHelper to control banks/patches on the FCB


Shayne Harris <shayne@...>
 

Hey All,

I'm new to the forum and have some MIDI experience (not a guru by any means, but I can generally make everything work)
I'm wanting to control the FCB Banks/Patch select using Band Helper via a Roland UM-One into the MIDI-IN of the FCB.
This way, when we are performing I can just select the song on Band Helper and have the MIDI change sent to the FCB.
Is this actually possible?
One thing that eludes me is how to change the MIDI channel that the actual FCB is on? With the stock chip it was a simple global setup, but I have not been able to figure it out with Uno2.
I have attached a current working schematic of how it works now (though I haven't yet attempted the Band Helper integration)



Many thanks
Shayne Harris


EJ SHELDON
 

It looks to me like the FCB/UNO2 simply acts as a "MIDI THRU" device, and "SENDS" on whatever CHANNEL the device you want to control "listens" on per this line in the code:

CHANNEL DeviceName = X

With three devices, it might look like this:

CHANNEL OD200 = 1
CHANNEL EQ200 = 2
CHANNEL MD200 = 3

Unfortunately, your incoming Program Change messages are passed through to whatever Device is listening on the sending device's Channel.

IOW - If your UNO2 is configured as above, and if you send a PC message from Band Helper on Channel 1, the PC message will be passed thru to the OD200.
Whatever PC message you send does nothing to the FCB/UNO2, as it doesn't react to PC messages, it only SENDS them. Sending a PC# to the FCB/UNO2 does not trigger the FCB/UNO to send the contents of that Preset, it just passes what is sent. It also seems immune to LSB/MSB Bank Change messages.

There may be a way to do what I think you're wanting to do, but I'm not far enough along with UNO2 to know if that is true.


 


Shayne Harris <shayne@...>
 

Hey!

 

That serves me right for assuming…. I was sure that the FCB could accept a bank change from another device, however if it’s a MIDI THRU only device than I can work around it…

My impression was that Band Helper could send the Bank/Preset to the FCB and in turn, the FCB makes the patch change.

Maybe Tiny Box will do what I want.

 

However, I guess I could have the best of both worlds and get Band Helper to make the changes for me, then I could override anything with the FCB…

The system works at the moment except for the Band Helper integration.

 

Thanks for your input

Kind Regards,

Shayne Harris



 

From: uno@fcb1010.groups.io <uno@fcb1010.groups.io> On Behalf Of EJ SHELDON via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, 23 February 2021 4:35 PM
To: uno@fcb1010.groups.io
Subject: Re: [fcb1010_uno] Using BandHelper to control banks/patches on the FCB

 

It looks to me like the FCB/UNO2 simply acts as a "MIDI THRU" device, and "SENDS" on whatever CHANNEL the device you want to control "listens" on per this line in the code:

CHANNEL DeviceName = X

With three devices, it might look like this:

CHANNEL OD200 = 1

CHANNEL EQ200 = 2

CHANNEL MD200 = 3

Unfortunately, your incoming Program Change messages are passed through to whatever Device is listening on the sending device's Channel.

IOW - If your UNO2 is configured as above, and if you send a PC message from Band Helper on Channel 1, the PC message will be passed thru to the OD200.
Whatever PC message you send does nothing to the FCB/UNO2, as it doesn't react to PC messages, it only SENDS them. Sending a PC# to the FCB/UNO2 does not trigger the FCB/UNO to send the contents of that Preset, it just passes what is sent. It also seems immune to LSB/MSB Bank Change messages.

There may be a way to do what I think you're wanting to do, but I'm not far enough along with UNO2 to know if that is true.

 


sirnothing23
 

Hey Shayne,

I'm using Bandhelper to trigger the Gordius Little Giant with AxeFXII.  UNO2 is based on the Gordius  - all from Ossandust genius.  I can verify that Bandhelper works with the Gordius, so I think you can do it with the Tinybox, though I'd need to think and understand what you're doing.  

Bandhelper can send any midi (program change, control change, or raw midi).  FCB/UNO2 can receive midi to select banks, right?  I have a couple with UNO1, but haven't set them up in a while.  

But yes, you could select initial patches on your devices directly from Bandhelper, and I assume you could send a bank select to the FCB for different setups when you need distinct bank setups for songs or sets, if you need.  

For me, Bandhelper sends a control change + value to select a bank (on Gordius - then Gordius sends all bank and patch setup).  I also use the Gordius to trigger "next song" on Bandhelper / iPad, so I think you could select a song with the FCB and Tinybox, and Bandhelper would send all of the setup for each song, i.e. i think there's different ways of doing it.  Bandhelper and Tinybox both allow a ton of options.  I just arrange the setlist in Bandhelper, and click through the set list with a footswitch, and I can trigger audio clips, page down lyrics, etc. in Bandhelper.  

I don't yet have a Tinybox or UNO2, and I'm not exactly sure what you're doing, but I think there's a few very powerful options there with Bandhelper.

Nice to hear someone else using Bandhelper with this stuff !!
Dan


ossandust
 

The Gordius Little Giant is indeed fully remote controllable : you can select songs or banks, select presets, activate effects, press LittleGiant footswitches by sending MIDI messages to the device. The UnO2 firmware doesn't have that functionality, it just has standard MIDI THRU functionality without listening to the incoming MIDI. 
TinyBox also doesn't have any "remote control" functionality. It has extensive MIDI filtering and mapping options on the incoming MIDI (move or copy messages to other MIDI channels, change CC numbers, block or transpose MIDI note ranges, etc) but no remote control. This is on the wish list for a future TinyBox release.


Shayne Harris <shayne@...>
 

Hey Dan,

Thanks for the reply!
I checked out the Gordius - shame they are all now discontinued.
Ossandust responded after your post and confirmed that the Uno2 equipped FCB just passes MIDI thru - so its not interpreted.

Had a play with Band Helper tonight and easy to setup and send patches to all the devices except the FCB.
So, I guess I could still fire off the patch changes to all my devices from the Band Helper set list, but I believe I will still have to manually select the patch with the FCB if I'm wanting to press the Solo, or Wah, Volume pedals?

I play guitar/lead guitar and sing all the harmonies, so I'm trying to simplify my job... not sure what other cover band guitarists do to arrange the patches/banks. I'm thinking ultimately, I would love to have one bank per song, where the solo button, clean, OD etc... all stay in the same place, but change the top row to effects that may switch in and out. We have about 67 songs for a night - so wondering if the FCB memory can handle that?

BTW, I introduced Band Helper to my crew about a year ago and now everyone uses it, drummer for click etc... its the best on the market IMHO!

Cheers
Shayne, NZ


sirnothing23
 

I get it.  I'm in a Pink Floyd tribute and I literally can't remember the setup for each song without programming it in advance.  
I'm going to grab the UNO2 soon to check it out, but it sounds like there's no way to remotely control the FCB layout.  Ok.  

Still (forgive this excursion into a myriad of logistics) I wonder if there's a way to take advantage of the power of Tinybox to simulate different layouts, e.g. with conditional logic - when in state A, button 1 controls device X ...   in state B, button 1 controls device Y.   Still, you'd need to directly change the the FCB to coincide with a particular layout, so not sure that buys you anything, and I don't know if that's even possible.  

If you have a fairly small set of standard pedal layouts, then you can program them as banks on the FCB that are mapped to sets of songs, artists, or whatever configuration.  Either way, it sounds like you can't get there automatically.  Or if the PEDALS stay the same (distortion on/off, delay on/off, modulation on/off) and the only thing that changes is the settings of the device parameters (distortion type/gain/level, delay type/time, modulation type/level, etc.) then you don't need to change the FCB at all.  You can send ALL of that directly to your midi controllable pedals from Bandhelper.   Right?  

Might need to specify a channel for each device, but Bandhelper can do all of that.  When you select the next song, Bandhelper can send all of the initial device setup states, but you're stuck with whatever pedal state LED of the FCB, so you might need to end and start with all pedals in off state, then tap dance for each song to select which pedals are on.  Or click up and down bank to make sure the bank is initialized (all pedals off).  That's a little unfortunate.  I'm spoiled.  Gordius can do ALL of that - extremely powerful and flexible.  Can turn on/off lights to the footswitches with or without sending midi.  I can have chains of FCBs - the flexibility and power is overwhelming, but the programming and extendability of Tinybox is quite elegant.

So, i would first ask, does your pedal layout need to change for the FCB, or just the pedal settings?  I'm guessing you might need to move around and switch in and out the effects footswitches on the upper row?

If Bandhelper is JUST selecting a patch and initial state, and you're using the same basic layout on the FCB pedal board, then you can send all of that initial setup directly from Bandhelper.  Should work.  But you're stuck with whatever FCB bank until you manually switch it.  Again, if you only use 2 or 3 configurations of pedal layout, then you just need to remember, or pop up a note on the iPad in the Bandhelper song layout to remind you to go to bank X for this song or set.  

BUT I think you can scroll your setlist with the FCB too - sending midi command you've set up for next song, or even song 31.  That's still potentially 2 clicks (next song + bank change, if needed).   

I think memory of the FCB might be a limiting factor, but Tinybox might be everything you need because it overcomes the limitations of the FCB memory.
I think it depends on how different your layout needs to be.   

Can you get by with one overall layout?

Dan


Jack Fenton
 

If you want complete control of FCB1010 LED's, then I'm afraid you would have to take all of the "smarts" out of the FCB1010 but getting the EurakaProm and then setting in up in IO mode. You would need something like Bome MIDI Translator Pro to do all of the interpretations and control the LEDs. I know of no other chip that allows for this level of LED and 7 segment display control.

This guy shows how it is done but it requires a fair amount of programming.

https://youtu.be/yHpMK8XX2xU


ossandust
 

On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 04:04 PM, Jack Fenton wrote:
I know of no other chip that allows for this level of LED and 7 segment display control
We do have such chip, which allows to control each LED and each segment of the 7-segment display - the chip is part of the TinyBox package, but every now and then we sell it separately when asked for, indeed mostly for people tinkering with own software to create a custom FCB1010 controlled rig. 


Jack Fenton
 

Interesting. Can you remotely control the relays too? I didn't see it on the PDF sheet but maybe I missed it.

Yes, it looks like TinyBox would indeed be another solution if you need full LED control. Thanks for letting us know!


ossandust
 

On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 07:35 PM, Jack Fenton wrote:
Can you remotely control the relays too?
aha, you're right, that was added later on -  attached the updated document