Date
1 - 15 of 15
Use FCB1010 UnO2 with Cubase & plugins
mr.valentin.olle@...
Hello, I need help with the code: I want to use the FCB1010 with the UnO2 Chip, with Cubase and plugins. I really tried hard to solve this riddle, but man, please, I need support! :D I created a pdf-document, where I wrote down my plan/vision, & made screenshots, & I added the code that I got so far. I also created an extra txt-document, just with the code. Both documents are attached. Help would really be appreciated, thanks. Greetings Valentin |
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Valentin Olle <mr.valentin.olle@...>
Someone there to help me out? Please. |
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Jack Fenton
Hi,
I suspect that the plugins that are not working are VST3 which don't understand MIDI so you will need to do something in Cubase to convert MIDI (recognized by Cubase) to VST parameters (recognised by your VSTs). I do some general MIDI consulting/programming and have Cubase as well as an FCB1010 with Uno 2. You can send me an email and I can provide you with my rates. I thinking I'm on Cubase 10 though and I certainly do not have your plugins to test with so that might be a bit of a challenge. Typically I would test with something like Bome SendSX to ensure the MIDI commands are working before I would even attempt to program the FCB1010 UNO 2 firmware. |
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EJ SHELDON
I'm having a look at your problems this afternoon.
In the meantime, it would be helpful to know how you're using the 3 FX Plugins. Where are they in the signal chain? Will you be calling Presets within them? |
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EJ SHELDON
I spent a good part of the day looking at your problem and, unless you have some special need that you didn't detail, the attached file should do everything you need and more. I tested it in Cubase Elements with AT4 (for some reason Cubase won't see the AT5 VST2), GR5 (I don't have GR6, it's not worth the upgrade price IMO) and THU. Import the file into UNO2 ControlCenter and SEND it to your FCB.
Keep in mind that you need to be running the VST2 versions of your plugins if you want to use preset changes. Why? Because Steinberg sucks. They removed that capability from the VST3 spec. It's still possible, but the onus is on the plugin and DAW designers to implement it. You'll note that everything in the file is generically named. That's because it's essentially the template I use for all the amp sims, Helix, AXEFX and whatever else I've used it for, I lose track. Feel free to change the object names to suit. Each of the amp sims covered here has their own way of implementing MIDI control. The functions I describe below need to be assigned with "LEARN" in each amp sim. In THU there's a huge GLOBAL MIDI section. In GR5 if you need to make a Controller Global you must "LOCK" it. In AT5 they removed most of the GLOBAL settings because, um,.. I spoke to their Support folks and their response was the same as below. Most plugins use a Control VALUE of 0 for OFF and 127 for ON. When configuring AT5 for use with this file remember that you have to reverse the MIN/MAX Controller values to change the AT5 defaults of 127 = OFF and 0 = ON. Very annoying. I spoke to their support folks about it, their attitude was in essence "Va fan cuolo" as my Grandfather used to say. The polite translation being "Screw off!". In Guitar Rig your presets are stored in Banks called "TAGS". Whichever "TAG" you're in, that's where the numbered presets get called from. THU does the same, but the "TAGS" are more logically called "BANKS". Amplitube only has one BANK of 128 presets. In the file you'll notice a group of presets called AB1-AB4. These were originally used for sending Bank Change messages in AXEFX and HELIX. I modded them for use with these amp sims, where the best you can do is "Jump to Tag" and "Tag Previous/Next" in GR5 and "BANK PREVIOUS/NEXT" in THU. S1-S4 were intended for changing SCENES in AXEFX and SNAPSHOTS in HELIX. They can be used for SCENES in THU. In AT5 you can use them for Preset Previous/Next. In Preset Mode, I reserved button 5 for TUNER functions. In GR5 and THU it MUTES the tuner. It's useless in AT5 because the people in that part of Italy are really fond of that hit Chinese Pop tune - you know the one - "Tu-Ning". In Direct Mode there's only 5 Stomps, the other 4 positions being used for the SCENE selectors, but you can easily replace the scenes with other Stomps, I defined a bunch of extras. The only thing I can say about using Cubase is that you create an Audio and a MIDI track for each amp sim/plugin, point the MIDI Track at the Audio Track and then activate the pair to both PLAY/RECORD and route MIDI to the amp sim. This whole thing is SOO much more elegant in Reaper (my preferred DAW). I attached a screen shot to show the configuration. FWIW - if it sounds like I'm down on AT5, I kind of am. I've been using it since before it was called Amplitube. It's the best SOUNDING of the bunch, and their new product, ToneX, is better than THU's RIGS in that you can make your own captures, just like a Kemper! Unfortunately, AT5's MIDI implementation is the worst of the lot and worse than AT4's and they don't care. Very sad. |
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EJ SHELDON
In case you (or anyone else) has the same problem getting Cubase to recognize the AT5 VST2, the cure is to delete the AT5 VST3 from:
C:/Program Files/Common Files/VST3. Don't ask why, it's only an issue in Cubase (no problem in Reaper or Ableton), but it just works. |
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I see you created the separate midi channel for the guitar, which does work with Amplitube 5, but in your attachment, you didn't highlight any of these midi channels, so we can't see what your routing assignments are.
It is possible that you're trying to do too much with this by trying to control multiple VST instruments. It may still be possible by setting things up on different channels, but at this point, I would remind you that Cubase is a recording daw, and not really made for live performance.. (my apologies if this is not your intent) |
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Jack Fenton
"Cubase is a recording daw"
You might want to look into Gig Performer for live performance. |
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EJ SHELDON
I never asked WHY Valentin chose Cubase, I assumed that it had to do with other features or having already invested in it, and that using it with multiple guitar amp sims was just an added benefit. Yes, for straight up performance there are better choices - Gig Performer and Cantabile for sure.
However, with the exception of the annoyance of having to manually reverse the ON/OFF messages in AT5 which can be done with a simple filter in Cantabile (never used Rig Performer, assume it has filter/transform abilities also), the UNO2 code I attached was actually designed to control all three of the sims he mentioned, and others, and HW too!. Cubase will likely never be as good for live performance as purpose-made programs like Gig Performer or Cantabile, or even Ableton, but it'll work fine for home fun and the addition of a Control Surface - Korg nanoKontrol is cheap and functional - would make it that much easier to work with. |
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Valentin Olle <mr.valentin.olle@...>
Had the same problem with AT5 VST2: I could solve it via the plugin manager in Cubase - had to un-blacklist it. Back in the days I got a Cubase education version, it became my DAW. Upgraded 2 times, now I am with Version 11.0.41. Works for me, it runs very stable. I really like the Cubase MixConsole. I will work with this setup in the studio in the upcoming time. I am curious how it will workout. Want to connect some analog & digital (guitar) workflows with the FCB1010 in my studio. I am not in a live campaign phase atm.. Thinking of Ableton, if time comes (or maybe Gig Performer, or Cantabile - not sure). Guess an upgrade to Cubase version 12 might be problematic for me with the FCB1010 UnO2: Steinberg ends VST2 plugin support with Version 12. Am Do., 13. Okt. 2022 um 18:10 Uhr schrieb EJ SHELDON <bluesrock13@...>: I never asked WHY Valentin chose Cubase, I assumed that it had to do with other features or having already invested in it, and that using it with multiple guitar amp sims was just an added benefit. Yes, for straight up performance there are better choices - Gig Performer and Cantabile for sure. |
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I'm using Cubase 12 pro and the VST3 of Amplitube 5.
In the attached screenshot, you can see the midi channel assignment. I'm using CC16 to control the volume in this instance among general patch changes. Anyway, the point I wanted to make is midi works fine with VST3 & Cubase 12. In this case, I am running the floor controller on channel 10 |
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EJ SHELDON
On Sat, Oct 15, 2022 at 04:28 PM, Valentin Olle wrote:
I don't have Cubase 11. I have Cubase 12. The only difference between the two versions (Elements and Pro) is the additional features (like more tracks, more native VSTs etc. You will not have any problem in Cubase 12 Pro IF you use VST2. When Steinberg says that they are ending support for VST2, that just means that there will be no further development and no new SDKs. VST2 will continue to work for the foreseeable future. The code I provided for UNO2 will continue to work. MIDI is MIDI. The above is not speculation. I've already done it. The following IS speculation. I believe that part of the reason for the newer VST3 design has to do with the upcoming release of MIDI 2.0. Everything developed using MIDI 1.0 will continue to work (backwards compatibility is designed into it), but the new 2.0 standard adds many features such as two-way communication between MIDI devices WHICH ARE DESIGNED TO IMPLEMENT THEM. This likely means more complexity in the way that VST plugins handle operations such as Program Changes. VST3 likely has those complexities factored into the design, but Steinberg has no way of knowing exactly HOW future plugin developers will implement them and so has left implementing Program Changes up to the developers. Once again, to clarify and avoid confusion, there is no reason NOT to upgrade to Cubase Pro 12 IF you need the new features. VST2 will continue to work as proven by me, and the UNO2 code will continue to work, also proven by me. |
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EJ SHELDON
On Sat, Oct 15, 2022 at 10:59 PM, @Hskr8 wrote:
Anyway, the point I wanted to make is midi works fine with VST3 & Cubase 12.To clarify, the only aspect of MIDI control which DOES NOT work with VST3 is Program Changes. That is the ONLY reason to continue to use VST2. Plugins which DO NOT employ MIDI Program Changes are fine, even preferred for use with VST3. I do not know if the native Steinberg plugins employ MIDI Program Changes and if they do, if they work with VST3 and MIDI Program Change Messages. It would seem to me that, since VST3 is Steinberg and the native plugins in Cubase are also Steinberg, that MIDI Program Change Messages WOULD work with VST3 and THOSE plugins. I haven't gotten around to testing that theory since I only purchased Steinberg Elements because it's a DAW that I have no experience with (I have many others) and to help the OP. My brief exposure to Cubase 12 has thus far given me no reason why I should switch from Reaper, which works GREAT for MY purposes. |
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Thanks for the clarification EJ.
I found a good (but long) discussion of the midi vst3 vs vst2 issues if anyone would like to read through it. https://forums.steinberg.net/t/vst3-and-midi-cc-pitfall/201879/42 From what I gather, the extended midi support in vst2 was sort of a hack/mistake that people came to rely on, and it was removed in vst3. It sounds like Steinberg prefers having the host handle it directly via imidimapping (there was a problem with Reaper in Jan '21 doing this) But it looks like the benefit of the vst3 standard is so that the Midi 2.0 implementation will not cause any need to rebuild vst3 plugins. So this change in approach seems to be the cause of a lot of friction with end users who have gotten caught up in just trying to get things to work how they want. |
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EJ SHELDON
Thanks for the link. Pretty much verified what I thought. Interesting that the last post to that thread was more than 3 years ago.
I don't get the claim about CCs not working in VST3. I'm using a Windows computer and both Reaper and Ableton support mapping CCs to VST3 plugin parameters from within the plugin's UI. Neither works with PCs. IDK if Steinberg modified the VST3 specification or everyone figured out a work-around, I just wish SOMEONE - the DAW Hosts or the VST3 plugin makers would fix the PC thing. I'm NOT going to buy a MAC just to get that one function! |
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