CC Messages EXP Pedal
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EJ SHELDON
As I mentioned, the CC VALUES on the stomps are ignored by BIAS. All BIAS does is look for the assigned CC# and flip the effect status - if it's ON then it turns OFF and vice versa.
If you're setting TOGGLE with the Expression Pedal, it'll turn ON and OFF repeatedly, but that's all (see above). You need to use the VOLUME or WAH setting. DO NOT USE BOTH! Sorry, but if you need to turn the pedals ON/OFF during performance you'll need to use a Stomp to do that. As an aside - BIAS has THE WORST MIDI implementation of ANY of the major players. Most of the others will allow you to set a low CC Value at which the exp pedal activates, so that 0 is always OFF. TH3 actually has a check box to do that automatically. Also, because BIAS ignores CC Ranges, if you wanted to use UNO's ability to sync the LEDs with the effect status (faux 2 way communication) you can't do it. Amplitube and TH3 work perfectly with that method. GR5 does not, because (I think) it ignores CC#s sent with PC#s. L6 Native in it's current version only allows CC messages (with ranges) but not PC messages. I'm hoping that will change in a future version. |
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Steven Marruso
When you say “you will need to use your WHA or Volume settings” what setting are you referring to? The patch I am working with only has a Volume Pedal so that should simplify things. Where are the settings in UNO for WAH / VOL?
Interesting I found this youtube video the user is working with an old Line6 XT LIVE (which I happen to own) and he is clearly able to get this to work (@ 2:30 sec). I am going to test it however I’d prefer to use the FBC1010, I bought the FBC1010 controller and updated to the UNO firmware several years ago and then bought the editor software, I have not been able to use it once. I have a rehearsal tomorrow, I really would rather be preparing for the rehearsal than pulling my hair out trying to get this thing to talk to BIAS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38l2eeVPeQI
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: fcb1010_uno@... on behalf of bluesrock13@... [fcb1010_uno]
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2019 2:27:17 PM To: fcb1010_uno@... Subject: [fcb1010_uno] Re: CC Messages EXP Pedal As I mentioned, the CC VALUES on the stomps are ignored by BIAS. All BIAS does is look for the assigned CC# and flip the effect status - if it's ON then it turns OFF and vice versa. If you're setting TOGGLE with the Expression Pedal, it'll turn ON and OFF repeatedly, but that's all (see above). You need to use the VOLUME or WAH setting. DO NOT USE BOTH! Sorry, but if you need to turn the pedals ON/OFF during performance you'll need
to use a Stomp to do that.
As an aside - BIAS has THE WORST MIDI implementation of ANY of the major players. Most of the others will allow you to set a low CC Value at which the exp pedal activates, so that 0 is always OFF. TH3 actually has a check box to do that automatically.
Also, because BIAS ignores CC Ranges, if you wanted to use UNO's ability to sync the LEDs with the effect status (faux 2 way communication) you can't do it. Amplitube and TH3 work perfectly with that method. GR5 does not, because (I think) it ignores CC#s
sent with PC#s. L6 Native in it's current version only allows CC messages (with ranges) but not PC messages. I'm hoping that will change in a future version.
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EJ SHELDON
The settings for WAH/Volume are not in UNO, they're in BIAS. TIP: If a BIAS preset contains both a VOLUME and a WAH, you can set the TOGGLE function to toggle between them by using the same STOMP for both, and saving the preset with the VOLUME ON and the WAH OFF. You can even assign the same Expression pedal to both, but be aware that if you're using the WAH and leave it in the heel down position when you hit the STOMP to toggle back to the VOLUME, VOLUME will be OFF! So, unless you have a reason (some other pedal being controlled by Exp B), you should probably use both expression pedals. There's no reason NOT to use the FCB for these purposes. Before I give advice like this I always TEST it first on my own system. It works, trust me. I try to be as concise in my instructions as possible, but sometimes what is in my head gets lost in translation at the keyboard. Keep at it, we'll get it working! |
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Steven Marruso
Ok if I am understanding you correctly then I can toggle the WAH / Vol pedals (already had that working) in Bias but I cannot send cc messages to control the effect because BIAS ignores it, which is of course useless. Additionally I am not using BIAS FX desktop although I own it, I am using BIAS FX mobile on an IOS device through a docking station (and the MIDI is working), they are two different beasts. I know this was probably a bad idea, will have to look into a better live solution which is not going to be easy, all my Line 6 devices (XT Live, POD HD, VETTA Combo) all died, and I don’t want to spent a fortune on another expensive paper weight. I thought this might be a good solution.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: fcb1010_uno@... on behalf of bluesrock13@... [fcb1010_uno]
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2019 3:43:29 PM To: fcb1010_uno@... Subject: [fcb1010_uno] Re: CC Messages EXP Pedal The settings for WAH/Volume are not in UNO, they're in BIAS.
TIP: If a BIAS preset contains both a VOLUME and a WAH, you can set the TOGGLE function to toggle between them by using the same STOMP for both, and saving the preset with the VOLUME ON and the WAH OFF. You can even assign the same Expression pedal to
both, but be aware that if you're using the WAH and leave it in the heel down position when you hit the STOMP to toggle back to the VOLUME, VOLUME will be OFF! So, unless you have a reason (some other pedal being controlled by Exp B), you should probably use
both expression pedals.
There's no reason NOT to use the FCB for these purposes. Before I give advice like this I always TEST it first on my own system. It works, trust me. I try to be as concise in my instructions as possible, but sometimes what is in my head gets lost in translation
at the keyboard. Keep at it, we'll get it working!
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EJ SHELDON
You are not understanding me correctly.
A CC# is like an address "Effect X responds to CC#Y". A CC VALUE is an INSTRUCTION to that effect as to WHAT, specifically, the addressed effect should DO. In most MIDI controlled applications, a CC VALUE of 127 turns an effect ON, and a VALUE of 000 turns it off. Remember I said that the sysex I sent was configured for Amplitube? Amplitube, for some reason known only to the programmers (who consider the reason a top level corporate secret), Amplitube goes the other way - 000 = ON/127 = OFF. BIAS IGNORES the VALUE, NOT the CC# itself. ANY value it receives on the assigned CC# is ignored. The fact that a CC# was sent is all it takes to toggle the effect status. That's why you can't use the UNO "faux 2 way communication" function, because that depends on the last VALUE sent by the FCB. If you send (at preset load) ON-OFF-ON-OFF-ON, any other sim will set the assigned effects ON-OFF-ON-OFF-ON, regardless of how the sim's preset is saved. If the BIAS preset is set as ON-OFF-ON-OFF-ON, sending that same sequence (which would have no effect in another sim's likewise saved preset) will reset the BIAS preset's effects to OFF-ON-OFF-ON-OFF, because it simply flips the status regardless of the CC VALUES. I know that's confusing. There's a reason why the other sims do it in a STANDARDIZED way, and the fact that BIAS ignores those standards is ONE of the reasons I said that BIAS has the WORST MIDI implementation of any of the major sims. |
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Steven Marruso
I did get that, it also says in the documentation that turning stomps and or amps on or off via MIDI uses any value above or below 64 to toggle to on or off states. That still does not explain why the EXP pedals will not interact the WAH/VOL effect once it is turned on. I am using the config you sent, it does in fact toggle the effects and I did not have to tweak anything, however the VOL pedal is not responding to either Exp. controller.
I tried setting the preset and individual stomps to both “Change and No Change” with on joy. I also tried making the pedal “ID #” the same as the stomp I assigned to activate the VOL pedal, still no joy. Apparently I am not the only person to have had this issue, I am surprised to see no or very little documentation on this, I think Positive Grid just wants you to buy there BLUEBOARD, and I am not giving them another Dime, they have taken enough of my hard earned money and delivered very little in return. This software is useless without a floor board.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: fcb1010_uno@... on behalf of bluesrock13@... [fcb1010_uno]
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2019 4:23:05 PM To: fcb1010_uno@... Subject: [fcb1010_uno] Re: CC Messages EXP Pedal You are not understanding me correctly. A CC# is like an address "Effect X responds to CC#Y".
A CC VALUE is an INSTRUCTION to that effect as to WHAT, specifically, the addressed effect should DO.
In most MIDI controlled applications, a CC VALUE of 127 turns an effect ON, and a VALUE of 000 turns it off.
Remember I said that the sysex I sent was configured for Amplitube? Amplitube, for some reason known only to the programmers (who consider the reason a top level corporate secret), Amplitube goes the other way - 000 = ON/127 = OFF.
BIAS IGNORES the VALUE, NOT the CC# itself. ANY value it receives on the assigned CC# is ignored. The fact that a CC# was sent is all it takes to toggle the effect status. That's why you can't use the UNO "faux 2 way communication" function, because that
depends on the last VALUE sent by the FCB. If you send (at preset load) ON-OFF-ON-OFF-ON, any other sim will set the assigned effects ON-OFF-ON-OFF-ON, regardless of how the sim's preset is saved. If
the BIAS preset is set as ON-OFF-ON-OFF-ON, sending that same sequence (which would have no effect in another sim's likewise saved preset) will reset the BIAS preset's effects to OFF-ON-OFF-ON-OFF, because it simply
flips the status regardless of the CC VALUES.
I know that's confusing. There's a reason why the other sims do it in a STANDARDIZED way, and the fact that BIAS ignores those standards is ONE of the reasons I said that BIAS has the WORST MIDI implementation of any
of the major sims.
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Steven Marruso
Just found this on the PG site, tried adding it to the config for EXP Pedal A No Joy.
Expression Pedal CC# 100
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: fcb1010_uno@...
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2019 4:23:05 PM To: fcb1010_uno@... Subject: [fcb1010_uno] Re: CC Messages EXP Pedal You are not understanding me correctly. A CC# is like an address "Effect X responds to CC#Y".
A CC VALUE is an INSTRUCTION to that effect as to WHAT, specifically, the addressed effect should DO.
In most MIDI controlled applications, a CC VALUE of 127 turns an effect ON, and a VALUE of 000 turns it off.
Remember I said that the sysex I sent was configured for Amplitube? Amplitube, for some reason known only to the programmers (who consider the reason a top level corporate secret), Amplitube goes the other way - 000 = ON/127 = OFF.
BIAS IGNORES the VALUE, NOT the CC# itself. ANY value it receives on the assigned CC# is ignored. The fact that a CC# was sent is all it takes to toggle the effect status. That's why you can't use the UNO "faux 2 way communication" function, because that
depends on the last VALUE sent by the FCB. If you send (at preset load) ON-OFF-ON-OFF-ON, any other sim will set the assigned effects ON-OFF-ON-OFF-ON, regardless of how the sim's preset is saved. If
the BIAS preset is set as ON-OFF-ON-OFF-ON, sending that same sequence (which would have no effect in another sim's likewise saved preset) will reset the BIAS preset's effects to OFF-ON-OFF-ON-OFF, because it simply
flips the status regardless of the CC VALUES.
I know that's confusing. There's a reason why the other sims do it in a STANDARDIZED way, and the fact that BIAS ignores those standards is ONE of the reasons I said that BIAS has the WORST MIDI implementation of any
of the major sims.
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EJ SHELDON
"I tried setting the preset and individual stomps to both “Change and No Change” with on joy. I also tried making the pedal “ID #” the same as the stomp I assigned to activate the VOL pedal, still no joy" Attached is a screenshot. Is this the dialog you're using to set the expression pedals in BIAS? In that screen shot, STOMP 5, CC#115 is being used to TOGGLE the VOLUME. CC# 116 (Exp Pedal A) is being used to control the range. What does YOUR dialog look like (screenshot please)? Have you checked in with the monitor to verify that the expression pedals are transmitting (remember to step on a button to activate them)? As to your comments concerning PG's corporate strategies, IDK. Fact is I don't use BIAS because: a) there are SO many better sims out there. b) I don't care for their habit of releasing tons of new hardware products without perfecting the core SW packages that we paid A LOT for. c) for live performance, REAL HARDWARE RULES! For the cost of BIAS and the FCB/UNO you could (almost - add a few bucks, subtract all the time wasted trying to get it to work acceptably with MIDI) have a Helix Stomp and not really NEED anything else (including MIDI) unless you want to get fancy. Or a Headrush Gigboard. It's a wonderful time to be a guitarist, and amp sims' only real value is in recording with a DAW, having a million options to re-amp a clean guitar track. |
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Steven Marruso
After looking into some of the menu options it looks like Positive Grid has designed the application to not allow configuration thru 3rd party devices. There is a menu option for “Expression Pedal” in the MIDI assignment menu but it only covers use with Modulation, Distortion, and Delay. In fact you can’t even assign MIDI CC messages to Amp parameters so you have no access to Gain or Volume settings, you simply can have it instantiated or not. I have to believe this is by design.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: fcb1010_uno@... on behalf of Steve Marruso smarruso@... [fcb1010_uno]
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2019 4:59:58 PM To: fcb1010_uno@... Subject: RE: [fcb1010_uno] Re: CC Messages EXP Pedal Just found this on the PG site, tried adding it to the config for EXP Pedal A No Joy.
Expression Pedal CC# 100
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: fcb1010_uno@... on behalf of bluesrock13@... [fcb1010_uno]
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2019 4:23:05 PM To: fcb1010_uno@... Subject: [fcb1010_uno] Re: CC Messages EXP Pedal You are not understanding me correctly. A CC# is like an address "Effect X responds to CC#Y".
A CC VALUE is an INSTRUCTION to that effect as to WHAT, specifically, the addressed effect should DO.
In most MIDI controlled applications, a CC VALUE of 127 turns an effect ON, and a VALUE of 000 turns it off.
Remember I said that the sysex I sent was configured for Amplitube? Amplitube, for some reason known only to the programmers (who consider the reason a top level corporate secret), Amplitube goes the other way - 000 = ON/127 = OFF.
BIAS IGNORES the VALUE, NOT the CC# itself. ANY value it receives on the assigned CC# is ignored. The fact that a CC# was sent is all it takes to toggle the effect status. That's why you can't use the UNO "faux 2 way communication" function, because that
depends on the last VALUE sent by the FCB. If you send (at preset load) ON-OFF-ON-OFF-ON, any other sim will set the assigned effects ON-OFF-ON-OFF-ON, regardless of how the sim's preset is saved. If
the BIAS preset is set as ON-OFF-ON-OFF-ON, sending that same sequence (which would have no effect in another sim's likewise saved preset) will reset the BIAS preset's effects to OFF-ON-OFF-ON-OFF, because it simply
flips the status regardless of the CC VALUES.
I know that's confusing. There's a reason why the other sims do it in a STANDARDIZED way, and the fact that BIAS ignores those standards is ONE of the reasons I said that BIAS has the WORST MIDI implementation of any
of the major sims.
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Steven Marruso
Looks Like I need another piece of gear if I want this to work, other 3rd party manufactures are advertising that there foot controller will work with BIAS Mobile, so I stand corrected, and there is more than one. I can’t see why this cannot be done in FBCUNO, bummer.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: fcb1010_uno@... on behalf of bluesrock13@... [fcb1010_uno]
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2019 4:23:05 PM To: fcb1010_uno@... Subject: [fcb1010_uno] Re: CC Messages EXP Pedal You are not understanding me correctly. A CC# is like an address "Effect X responds to CC#Y".
A CC VALUE is an INSTRUCTION to that effect as to WHAT, specifically, the addressed effect should DO.
In most MIDI controlled applications, a CC VALUE of 127 turns an effect ON, and a VALUE of 000 turns it off.
Remember I said that the sysex I sent was configured for Amplitube? Amplitube, for some reason known only to the programmers (who consider the reason a top level corporate secret), Amplitube goes the other way - 000 = ON/127 = OFF.
BIAS IGNORES the VALUE, NOT the CC# itself. ANY value it receives on the assigned CC# is ignored. The fact that a CC# was sent is all it takes to toggle the effect status. That's why you can't use the UNO "faux 2 way communication" function, because that
depends on the last VALUE sent by the FCB. If you send (at preset load) ON-OFF-ON-OFF-ON, any other sim will set the assigned effects ON-OFF-ON-OFF-ON, regardless of how the sim's preset is saved. If
the BIAS preset is set as ON-OFF-ON-OFF-ON, sending that same sequence (which would have no effect in another sim's likewise saved preset) will reset the BIAS preset's effects to OFF-ON-OFF-ON-OFF, because it simply
flips the status regardless of the CC VALUES.
I know that's confusing. There's a reason why the other sims do it in a STANDARDIZED way, and the fact that BIAS ignores those standards is ONE of the reasons I said that BIAS has the WORST MIDI implementation of any
of the major sims.
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EJ SHELDON
Again, I got no idea what you're going on about. You're describing a different menu than what you need to be using, ignoring most of what I tell you, then claiming that it can't be done, by insidious design decisions of PG's programmers!
Do what I tell you and it will work! TO REPEAT: Right Click on the Volume or Wah pedai IN THE SIGNAL CHAIN VIEW - NOT the MIDI Control Assignments View!. Select MIDI/Automation. You'll then see the dialog that I sent you a screenshot of. Click TOGGLE LEARN. Press the stomp you want to use. Click VOLUME (or WAH) LEARN. Operate the Expression pedal you want to use. DON"T FORGET TO SAVE THE PRESET! The assignments that you can set in the MIDI Control Assignments View are GLOBAL. The Expression Pedal control assignments are PER PRESET and need to be set in the dialog that I described above and the preset SAVED. Did I mention how bad I think the MIDI implementation in BIAS is? BUT... if you follow my directions it WILL WORK! |
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EJ SHELDON
Are you using BIAS FX Desktop or Mobile? If desktop, then all of that is nonsense. If Mobile, you're on your own and Good Luck! BUT, from what I can tell from the copy I have on my iPhone, you're right, there's no way to do it.
AGAIN - DESKTOP = YES MOBILE = NO |
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EJ SHELDON
I checked out that link. They say BIAS FX, but didn't specifically state desktop or mobile. I'd ask specifically before buying, you might also need a MIDI Expression pedal to use it with Mobile. BUT, the device is not (far as I can tell) anything special vis a vis iOS, just a MIDI controller like the FCB.
Let me know how you make out, I'm curious. Although I think BIAS FX Mobile sounds awful, it could be the 1st gen iRig I'm using. There's no way I'd spend that much to make it work, but would be nice to know! |
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Saturno en llamas <saturnoenllamas@...>
Hello! I want to unsuscribe fron this mails, but cant do it right, could you help me removing me from this list? El 21/06/2019, a la(s) 5:26 p. m., Steve Marruso smarruso@... [fcb1010_uno] <fcb1010_uno@...> escribió:
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Steven Marruso
Great can you kindly tell me exactly how to right click on an iPad? The context menu you are referring to does not exist in the mobile version of bias fx if it does feel free to tell me how to access it. Thanks again for your support.
From: fcb1010_uno@... on behalf of Saturno en llamas saturnoenllamas@... [fcb1010_uno]
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2019 8:04:29 PM To: fcb1010_uno@... Subject: Re: [fcb1010_uno] Re: CC Messages EXP Pedal Hello! I want to unsuscribe fron this mails, but cant do it right, could you help me removing me from this list?
El 21/06/2019, a la(s) 5:26 p. m., Steve Marruso smarruso@... [fcb1010_uno] <fcb1010_uno@...> escribió:
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EJ SHELDON
If I'd known at the outset that you were using the Mobile version, I wouldn't have bothered with all of that because, as far as I can tell, there isn't any way to right click on the Mobile UI. There might be a way to bring up that dialog, but it isn't obvious to me. Since I'm using the demo version, it won't even let me add a Volume pedal, so I can't really investigate further. What's it say about it in the manual? Is there one? I couldn't find it.
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Steven Marruso
I did mention I was using the mobile version of the app, I did a significant amount of research on this today, there are several ways you can map midi cc in BFX mobile, one is global one is local, neither works for wah/vol. In the fbc editor I am able to simulate
transmission of Exp petal cc messages. However when I launch the midi monitor and move the foot controller no messages are sent, FYI.
From: fcb1010_uno@... on behalf of bluesrock13@... [fcb1010_uno]
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2019 8:40:50 PM To: fcb1010_uno@... Subject: [fcb1010_uno] Re: CC Messages EXP Pedal If I'd known at the outset that you were using the Mobile version, I wouldn't have bothered with all of that because, as far as I can tell, there isn't any way to right click on the Mobile UI. There might be a way to bring up that dialog, but it isn't obvious to me. Since I'm using the demo version, it won't even let me add a Volume pedal, so I can't really investigate further. What's it say about it in the manual? Is there one? I couldn't find it. |
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EJ SHELDON
Sorry, I missed that. Is there a manual/user guide? If so kindly post a link, you've got me curious.
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Steven Marruso
The mobile version was never upgraded to FX II as the desktop version was, so they call it “Bias FX Universal”, so it even has it’s own name. Attached is the URL to the online manual. On the Bottom of the “General Overview page is only reference to MIDI compatibility, the show the “Live view” option for MIDI learn which my version does have, I tried mapping it several times it works to turn on and off the EXP Pedal but does not receive the CC messages from the EXP controller.
https://help.positivegrid.com/hc/en-us/categories/115000650563
General Overview
https://help.positivegrid.com/hc/en-us/articles/204942795-General-Overview
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: fcb1010_uno@... on behalf of bluesrock13@... [fcb1010_uno]
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2019 9:07:39 PM To: fcb1010_uno@... Subject: [fcb1010_uno] Re: CC Messages EXP Pedal Sorry, I missed that. Is there a manual/user guide? If so kindly post a link, you've got me curious. |
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Steven Marruso
One question I do have is that when I had the FBC connected to the Edit software I was able to simulate EXP Pedal movement in the Editor, but when I started the MIDI monitor I did not see any activity coming from the EXP controller when I rock the pedal, Is this normal?
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: fcb1010_uno@... on behalf of Steve Marruso smarruso@... [fcb1010_uno]
Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2019 12:03:55 AM To: fcb1010_uno@... Subject: RE: [fcb1010_uno] Re: CC Messages EXP Pedal The mobile version was never upgraded to FX II as the desktop version was, so they call it “Bias FX Universal”, so it even has it’s own name. Attached is the URL to the online manual. On the Bottom of the “General Overview page is only reference to MIDI compatibility, the show the “Live view” option for MIDI learn which my version does have, I tried mapping it several times it works to turn on and off the EXP Pedal but does not receive the CC messages from the EXP controller.
https://help.positivegrid.com/hc/en-us/categories/115000650563
General Overview
https://help.positivegrid.com/hc/en-us/articles/204942795-General-Overview
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: fcb1010_uno@... on behalf of bluesrock13@... [fcb1010_uno]
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2019 9:07:39 PM To: fcb1010_uno@... Subject: [fcb1010_uno] Re: CC Messages EXP Pedal Sorry, I missed that. Is there a manual/user guide? If so kindly post a link, you've got me curious. |
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