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Getting the FCB Working with TH-U Overloud

knob4002@...
 

Hi everyone,

I got an FCB 1010 with 1.0.2.f UnO Firmware, no Control Software for now.

I'd like to use it in stompbox mode in the lower row, to activate / deactivate stomps in TH-U Overloud, using the Upper row to select patches.

I really can't find a way to program the fcb1010 in the appropriate way.

I've entered the Global Mode and set the stomp box mode (button 9) using the lower row (button 8 off), I have keep direct select OFF and button 5 ON.

The connection between FCB and audio interface works well (focusrite 2i4 on Windows 10)

EJ SHELDON
 

Step 1 - attached is the User Guide for UNO v1.0.2. READ it to learn how to manually program your FCB/UNO.
Step 2 - when manual programming has you tearing your hair out, buy the UNO_ControlCenter Editor. It's only like $20 and worth every penny.
https://www.fcb1010.uno/
Step 3 - once you have the Editor, AND you've read the manual, use it to install the attached sysex. Although it was written for Guitar Rig, it also works with THU.

At that point, I'll be happy to answer any questions you have about using your FCB/UNO with THU.

knob4002@...
 

Thank you so much, but I think I have solved the problem downloading another file instead the one you attached me:

https://fcb1010.groups.io/g/uno/files/SysEx%20Files

guitar rig 5 bigblocks, sended to pedalboard via MIDI OX.

Just inverted the stompbox row in GLOBAL SETTINGS. Using the lower row.

Now I'm able to switch on/off pedals with the lowest row and change the patches with the upper one.

Expression pedal seems to work well.

I already read the manual, but probably my biggest problem is that I don't know exactly wich kind of midi message I have to use for specific function.

Do you know any "for dummies" guide about it?

Many Thanks.

EJ SHELDON
 

Help me out here.
I loaded up that sysex.
There are NO Program Change messages.
How are you getting Preset Changes in THU?

EJ SHELDON
 

Try the attached sysex. It demonstrates something that won't work with the other sysex.

One of the features of the UNO chip is the ability to "fake" 2-way communication with Stompboxes.
The way this works is that it uses standard MIDI ON/OFF messages instead of NOTES.
The first time you step on the Stomp it sends Value1 - in this case CC# 127, the standard ON message. The LED lights up.
The next time you step on that Stomp it sends Value2 - in this case CC# 000, the standard OFF message. The LED turns off.
When you LEARN the function in THU, because you're using CC#s instead of NOTES, THU knows to turn the effect ON when it receives CC# 127, and OFF when it receives CC# 000.

So - if you load a preset that's saved with the assigned effect ON, the first time you hit the Stomp nothing happens except the LED lights up on the FCB.
Why? Because you've just sent the ON message to an effect that's already ON.
The NEXT time you hit the Stomp the effect turns OFF and the FCB LED turns OFF. You are now synchronized for as long as you stay on that preset.

But that's annoying, having to hit the Stomp twice, and do it for EVERY effect in EVERY preset EVERY time I load a new preset.
What can you do?

IF you spend the $20 for the ControlCenter Editor, you can configure each FCB preset to send the correct ON/OFF messages on preset load.*****
Now when the THU Preset is called FROM THE FCB (NOT manually from THU), your FCB is automatically synchronized to the ON/OFF status of the effects in the THU preset! Thus, you are "faking" 2-way communication.

***** You may be able to do this manually, but I've always found that it's worth my $20 to NOT have to deal with that PITA.

Now, not everybody cares. And certainly, there are some effects that you don't need an LED to tell you it's ON.
But there are other, more subtle effects that are not so obvious. Compressors and stacked gain pedals (clean/crunch/OD/distortion/MORE DISTORTION) come to mind.

Up to you of course, but try this sysex and see for yourself. I didn't send it in sysex format the first time (it's identical to the ControlCenter version) because most newbies don't know how to use MIDIOX to load sysex files. It won't sync on preset load, because I don't know what presets THU has vs TH3 (what I have), but you can see the first part I described.

Also, since this sysex uses proper Program Change messages, it may work better at changing presets that the other file.

knob4002@...
 
Edited

Thank you so much: but it doesn't work as the other file.

I can't give you an explanation different from the behavoir I'm able to see with my eyes but:

- the patch change with the upper row works in the same way for both files: after I choose a bank on sounds i can use preset 01 with button 6 - 02 : b7 - 03 : b8 - 04 : b9 - 05 : b10 / (bank 01 using Bank Up Button) 06 : b6 - 07 : b7 etc...

- if I use the MIDI learn mode - for example - to activate or deactivate a delay stomp in TH-U I have to do a double on/off on the button of the FCB 1010 to get the Delay On and Off.

It's true: quite annoying to re-sync every time you change patch... Another thing that I can I can say is taht the patch change works with the old files... I've loaded it again and tested (even without stompbox row inversion).

Do you know if the Control Center will work well with my firmware version? I'm on 1.0.2.f

EJ SHELDON
 

I have the same version as you, works fine.

Here's a modded version of the THU file I sent. This one uses the faux sync function of UNO on the 5 presets in bank 00.
To try it, first, in THU, create a Test bank so that presets 1-5 are blank.
In preset 1 create a rig with an amp/cab and 5 effects of different types. For instance: OD,DIST,Phaser, delay and reverb.
Don't bother turning them off, UNO will take care of it.
Copy your preset to bank positions 2-5.
In the Global MIDI window, starting with all of the FCB Stomps OFF (LED OFF) LEARN each category to your stomp pedals 1-5.
Now when you select any of the 5 presets in bank 00, different effects will be ON or OFF, and the Stomp pedals will be synchronized.

Just out of curiosity, I STILL can't get TH3 to switch presets using NOTES. Maybe it's something new in THU that I missed in the documentation?

knob4002@...
 

Thank you so much, I've tried but: there is an inversion between on off on the FCB1010 and effects in Overloud TH-U.

When the lights are ON on the FCB... the effect in Overloud is turned off.

Another issue: in the first preset (for example) we have just the first pedal on the lower row turned on, and I can see that all the effects on the first patch in Overloud are ON execpt the first one (OD).

If I want to turn OD on and off I can see that: pressing the button 1 on FCB turns the light off, but nothing happens to OD in Overloud.
pressing it again: turns the light ON on the button and turns the OD ON in Overloud.

Pressing the button again turns the light OFF on the button of the FCB but Douesn't turn off the OD in Overloud.

If I press the button again the lights turn ON on the pedal and the OD in Overloud is Disengaged.

EJ SHELDON
 

I just went in and tried everything I could think of to confuse TH3 or the FCB. The only way I could make it behave as you describe was to mod the sysex so that Value1=000 and Value2=127 - IOW, reversed. I wish you had ControlCenter, this would be so much easier to troubleshoot.

I've attached a screenshot from MIDIOX of what the pedal 6 messages should look like with the original sysex I sent.
I've also attached a modded version of the sysex with the Values reversed.

It makes no sense that Overloud would have changed the way the MIDI ON/OFF functions should work between TH3 and THU, but who knows?
When it comes to MIDI, they're not famous for crystal clear descriptions. Then, none of the amp sim vendors are. But that's a rant for another day.....

knob4002@...
 

Ok thank you so much again! 

The question is: do you think this issue can be solved with the control center? 

I don't want to spend 20 bucks and find myself stuck at the same problems... 

It's obvious that I'm asking you for an opinion ;-)

EJ SHELDON
 

While I've been working with you, I've been using MIDIOX to transfer sysex files to my FCB, because that's what you're using, just in case there's some weirdness between the way MIDIOX sends and the way ControlCenter does it.

The actual sysex files were created in ControlCenter, then exported to sysex format, then loaded to the FCB via MIDIOX and tested to be sure that they work the same way. The actual creation and modifications in ControlCenter literally take seconds to do. What we're doing is pretty simple, but when I'm working with more complex configurations the COMMENTS column is invaluable for communicating to clients (and reminding myself) how things work.

The screenshot attached is the place where you do most of the editing. There's also sections for Global settings and per preset details. There are also Monitor screens where you can test your configuration as you go on the Virtual FCB before sending to the actual FCB, then you use another monitor screen to test the actual FCB.

For troubleshooting, I could ask you to upload the contents of the FCB and then send a screenshot so I can tell if there was a transmission problem, or if you made changes or had a configuration that wasn't working as expected I could analyze it, correct it and return it, all in one place.

Would it PREVENT issues with THU (or any other SW)? Not necessarily. As I mentioned, vendors are TERRIBLE at documenting the MIDI capabilities and functions of their products. But it sure makes working with the FCB/UNO a whole heck of a lot easier and faster than the alternatives.

BTW and FWIW - ControlCenter was written by the same guy who created the UNO chip that's in your FCB. There just isn't anything better out there. If you started a thread asking "Is ControlCenter worth $20?", you'd get a whole lot of "YES!" responses.

chrisw_63
 

Agreed!  Unless $20 means you can't eat or pay your rent or something, it's probably worth it.

knob4002@...
 

Ok, I've tried the 2reverse" file and now selecting a patch gives the right "on and off" matching between Overloud and the FCB.

The unique issue is that I always have to press the buttons on FCB TWICE to get the linked Stomp in Overloud to react, twice pressing for grtting it ON or OFF.... I hope even this issue can be solved programming with Control Center.... do you think it will be?

EJ SHELDON
 

That should not be happening.

IF
When using the Reverse sysex I just sent
when you press pedal 6 the preset loads with just the OD pedal ON and everything else OFF
AND
when you use the original THU sysex I sent it's just the opposite
AND 
either way you still have to hit the Stomp TWICE to turn it ON/OFF
THEN
something is fishy in your FCB's Global configuration.

I don't have any idea what that might be. 10+ years ago when I got my FCB it took me about an hour of screwing around with manual programming to decide that I needed UNO and ControlCenter.

You can try doing a factory reset, then reload the original 127/000 file I sent and see if it works, then the 000/127 file if it doesn't.

If you decide to get ControlCenter we can trade screenshots and hopefully figure out where the problem is,

Unless your FCB has a hitherto undiscovered bug, I can't figure out what the problem is. My FCB/UNO 1.0.2f and TH3 (which the documentation implies is identical MIDI-wise to THU) just works.

I'm attaching screenshots of the TH3 MIDI configuration screen. If you see any difference to how they look in THU, let me know.

knob4002@...
 

Ok I'll try a factory reset, a re initialization of the uno chip as it was just installed, then a stompbox initialization.

I'm sure about the last two because they are on the manual...

The factory reset should be: button 1 and 6 while switching on... Then wait the countdown. Right?

Are all the three resets needed? 

Then I'll try to reload the sysex file

EJ SHELDON
 

Just the 1+6 till the countdown starts.
You'll also need to go into the Global Configuration manually - reboot holding the DOWN pedal, UP twice to get Global Config, and turn on Sysex Receive (button 7). This has to be done whenever you do a factory reset.
Don't forget to exit by holding the DOWN pedal till the display shows 00.

knob4002@...
 

I've made the factory reset and now everything works in the appropriate way!

I can use the first file you sent me (no the REV) one, the ON on the pedalboard matches the ON in the patch, and a single stroke is needed to activate/deactivate!

Tomorrow I'll probably get Control Center License ;-)

Really Really Thank you so much!

EJ SHELDON
 

YAY!!!!!

Have Fun!